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(Responding to Albert Swanson)
Luke 14:26, 33, “If anyone comes to Me, and does not hate his own father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters, yes, and even his own life, he cannot be My disciple…So likewise, whoever of you does not forsake all that he has cannot be My disciple.”
I’m actually relieved that I only have a passing familiarity with the bible.
If I thought it was my sole source for comprehension, my relationship to the divine would have withered up and blown away decades ago.
Is there any reason given, that the term “Hate” is used in the above quote from Luke?
Am I supposed to think that all human existence is vile and loathsome?
Or,…as I have concluded through other sources and direct contemplation; it is not what it seems on the surface. There is more.
Our small lives as people among other people, living on a planet bursting with countless expressions of life, is the realm of finite and relative experience.
It is rooted in, and not-different than it’s source. The infinite and absolute singularity of God.
We live our lives not knowing this. And in that state, we perpetuate good and bad, happiness and suffering.
What we don’t know, is the missing piece. Demonstrated by Jesus when he declared “I and the Father are one.”
The knowledge of this, is Christ. The Atman. Self.
If you don’t move towards, and ultimately into this awareness, then you live in what you refer to as sin.
This has nothing to do with being gay, adulterous, divorced, happy, sad or indifferent.
You just have not heard the call. No matter what you think the bible is saying.
(Responding to Albert Swanson who was responding to allegro63)
No matter what countless Christians have fixated on about Jesus, he did not go around reciting a list of do’s and don’ts.
He demonstrated the nature of Christ in action amongst us.
The guidance he gave, was purposeful and to the point.
Showed us how to see our fundamental mistake. We live our lives blinded by self serving and myopic egoism. Our behaviors, no matter what they are, are only secondary and incidental artifacts of this condition.
We are ignorant of our our non-difference in God. The stronger the grip of this ignorance, the more pain our behavior causes. The more we trap ourselves and others in the maze.
He declared “I and the Father are one.”
Advised us to “Love God with all our heart, mind and soul” and to “Love our neighbors as our self.”
Saying that this, is “The whole of the Law.”
Went to his death without fear, because he knew the Truth; Death is not real.
What more do we need to get started? To begin finding our way out of the mess?
Yet people think he came to warn us, about a Moralistic and Judgemental God. One who must punish or reward, for a small subset of behaviors. And, only those percolating through popular consciousness at the time.
Paul was not Jesus, The Bible is not God, and it’s only the word of God, to the degree that you or I have cleared the fog from our eyes. Not much different than the daily news paper, once you’re really in the groove.
Albert Swanson - “Inspired by God. If nothing in the bible is inspired by God than it might as well all be discounted.”
Why would you deny the voices that you debate the same status?
Answer: You have poured wax in your ears, and hear nothing but the echo of your own limitations.
Albert Swanson – “Because I know the bible is Gods Word.”
How did you come by this knowledge?
allegro63 - “Excellent question brmckay.”
I’m going all Socratic on him now. Sharing the workload.
Don’t really want to take away his certainty. It is a precious thing. Compassion, empathy and veracity will have to come in their own time. It’s not up to me.
I wonder who the preachers and parents are, who have provided us such an abundance of convolution.
Naivete can be a virtue when approaching God. But this kind is different. It’s been preprocessed just to fill pews.
Albert Swanson – “Did you really take that as being literal? I took that as he wants you to put himself (Jesus) above yourself and even your family. That seems to be backed up in other areas of the bible that state that God must always come first. Sometimes the writers would make an overly powerful statement in an attempt to make a point. I think it is fair to say that not everything in the bible is literal. And before you mention the topic of homosexuality.. think about this.. what is the heart of the message about homosexuality? What point would they be trying to make if it was anything other than that homosexuality is a sin?”
The spiritual sense of Luke’s quotation is not lost on me. It is the essence of Yoga saadhana. But forgive me if I did not assume you had grasped the nuance.
In relationship to this; i.e. the turning away from the trance of worldly things, the topic of homosexuality does not leap to the forefront of my thoughts.
Let’s look at Capitalism, Hedonism, Sexism, Racism, Terrorism, Militarism, Materialism, Nationalism.
Scientism, Fundamentalism, Egotism.
These are organic developments rooted in the primal sin of not knowing our non-difference from the One source. We live in a dream of individual self interest. Our lives wasted grasping after the ephemeral and finite. Running away from death.
Being homosexual is no more a sin than being born a human being. Especially in increasingly overpopulated, spiritually impoverished, toxified time and space.
We have all contributed to the chaos. Stop deflecting your own responsibility.
The Bible is not the solution. Awakening to Christ is.
Stop persecuting your brothers and sisters for the variety of libido they are born with. You need to concentrate on sorting out your own condition.