The Winding Path – 061

For the context of the following comments please click on the hyperlinks above them.

2014-04-05 12:03

(Responding to Albert Swanson)

Luke 14:26, 33, “If anyone comes to Me, and does not hate his own father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters, yes, and even his own life, he cannot be My disciple…So likewise, whoever of you does not forsake all that he has cannot be My disciple.”

I’m actually relieved that I only have a passing familiarity with the bible.

If I thought it was my sole source for comprehension, my relationship to the divine would have withered up and blown away decades ago.

Is there any reason given, that the term “Hate” is used in the above quote from Luke?

Am I supposed to think that all human existence is vile and loathsome?

Or,…as I have concluded through other sources and direct contemplation; it is not what it seems on the surface. There is more.

Our small lives as people among other people, living on a planet bursting with countless expressions of life, is the realm of finite and relative experience.

It is rooted in, and not-different than it’s source. The infinite and absolute singularity of God.

We live our lives not knowing this. And in that state, we perpetuate good and bad, happiness and suffering.

What we don’t know, is the missing piece. Demonstrated by Jesus when he declared “I and the Father are one.”

The knowledge of this, is Christ. The Atman. Self.

If you don’t move towards, and ultimately into this awareness, then you live in what you refer to as sin.

This has nothing to do with being gay, adulterous, divorced, happy, sad or indifferent.

You just have not heard the call. No matter what you think the bible is saying.

2014-04-06 09:47

(Responding to Albert Swanson who was responding to allegro63)

No matter what countless Christians have fixated on about Jesus, he did not go around reciting a list of do’s and don’ts.

He demonstrated the nature of Christ in action amongst us.

The guidance he gave, was purposeful and to the point.

Showed us how to see our fundamental mistake. We live our lives blinded by self serving and myopic egoism. Our behaviors, no matter what they are, are only secondary and incidental artifacts of this condition.

We are ignorant of our our non-difference in God. The stronger the grip of this ignorance, the more pain our behavior causes. The more we trap ourselves and others in the maze.

He declared “I and the Father are one.”

Advised us to “Love God with all our heart, mind and soul” and to “Love our neighbors as our self.”

Saying that this, is “The whole of the Law.”

Went to his death without fear, because he knew the Truth; Death is not real.

What more do we need to get started? To begin finding our way out of the mess?

Yet people think he came to warn us, about a Moralistic and Judgemental God. One who must punish or reward, for a small subset of behaviors. And, only those percolating through popular consciousness at the time.

Paul was not Jesus, The Bible is not God, and it’s only the word of God, to the degree that you or I have cleared the fog from our eyes. Not much different than the daily news paper, once you’re really in the groove.

2014-04-07 09:57

Albert Swanson - “Inspired by God. If nothing in the bible is inspired by God than it might as well all be discounted.”

Why would you deny the voices that you debate the same status?

Answer: You have poured wax in your ears, and hear nothing but the echo of your own limitations.

2014-04-08 12:23

Albert Swanson – “Because I know the bible is Gods Word.”

How did you come by this knowledge?

2014-04-09 09:57

allegro63 - “Excellent question brmckay.”

I’m going all Socratic on him now. Sharing the workload.

Don’t really want to take away his certainty. It is a precious thing. Compassion, empathy and veracity will have to come in their own time. It’s not up to me.

I wonder who the preachers and parents are, who have provided us such an abundance of convolution.

Naivete can be a virtue when approaching God. But this kind is different. It’s been preprocessed just to fill pews.

2014-04-14 10:17

Albert Swanson – “Did you really take that as being literal? I took that as he wants you to put himself (Jesus) above yourself and even your family. That seems to be backed up in other areas of the bible that state that God must always come first. Sometimes the writers would make an overly powerful statement in an attempt to make a point. I think it is fair to say that not everything in the bible is literal. And before you mention the topic of homosexuality.. think about this.. what is the heart of the message about homosexuality? What point would they be trying to make if it was anything other than that homosexuality is a sin?”

The spiritual sense of Luke’s quotation is not lost on me. It is the essence of Yoga saadhana. But forgive me if I did not assume you had grasped the nuance.

In relationship to this; i.e. the turning away from the trance of worldly things, the topic of homosexuality does not leap to the forefront of my thoughts.

Let’s look at Capitalism, Hedonism, Sexism,  Racism, Terrorism, Militarism, Materialism, Nationalism.

Scientism, Fundamentalism, Egotism.

These are organic developments rooted in the primal sin of not knowing our non-difference from the One source. We live in a dream of individual self interest. Our lives wasted grasping after the ephemeral and finite. Running away from death.

Being homosexual is no more a sin than being born a human being. Especially in increasingly overpopulated, spiritually impoverished, toxified time and space.

We have all contributed to the chaos. Stop deflecting your own responsibility.

The Bible is not the solution. Awakening to Christ is.

Stop persecuting your brothers and sisters for the variety of libido they are born with. You need to concentrate on sorting out your own condition.

 

 

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The Winding Path – 060

For the context of the following comments please click on the hyperlinks above them.

2014-03-29 11:25

(Responding to James_Jarvis)

Hell is a work in process.

Oil spills, war, genocide, internet squabbles.

Nuclear holocaust. Recombinant genetics.

Eternity, is this moment; The here and now.

If we do not awake to the understanding, that our self is not a separate thing from the One Self, then our actions perpetuate the selfish, agenda driven, fear of dying self.

Just because somebody redacted reincarnation from the bible, doesn’t mean we don’t have to live in the mess we create.

2014-03-29 11:48

(Continuation of response to James_Jarvis)

As for Free Will:

As we are not separate from God. In fact, identical with God; As Jesus has shown. Then whatever mess we make, God suffers as well.

The Love of God must be something other than a love for you or for me. That kind of love requires a possible absence of it. The kind of love God usually gets from us.

Free Will is like that too. As infinite potentiality; Not subject to time; God, as the all, the entirety; Does not know what happens next; Except but through us.

2014-03-29 12:15

Grotoff - “There’s nothing logically stopping him from sending 7+ billion avatars of himself to walk among us and talk with us.”

7+ billion is a tiny finite number.

The grace of the Guru is infinite. (Oops, sorry “Holy Ghost”)

“If the alternative is billions in eternal hellfire, then why isn’t [he?] doing anything?”

Free will. The very nature of relativity. We must definitely resolve the part we play in keeping it so.

2014-03-30 09:10

Grotoff - “That’s just ridiculous. “

If your gripe is with YAHWEH, ok, but I prefer to go to the source myself. I want to actually understand. Not dictate terms.

Infinities of numbers are only relative infinities.

Absolute Infinitude, not having an antithesis, is a better place to start.

“… and it just doesn’t make sense for him to be hiding.”

If there is nothing that is not God, where is there to hide?

The intimacy that you seek is the whole story. Your sense of self is not what it seems. Think about it.

2014-03-30 09:33

Tracy - “I guess people have always accepted from that scripture that ‘God knows all things, and that he knows the beginning from the end’ to mean that he knows all things, from beginning to end :) I don’t think it means what we have thought it meant.”

Scripture serves it’s purpose only up to a point.

The rest of the journey is a surrender to Grace.

It doesn’t happen if we have to check the rule book first.

2014-03-31 10:43

 Grotoff - “I’m pretty sure that Orthodox Christianity would never claim that ‘there is nothing that is not God’.”

To the best of my understanding, that is why your complaints seem unanswered.

Perpetuating a dualistic and anthropomorphic visualization of God keeps us bound to original sin.

To the degree that it insists on limiting God to a shadow casting, and therefore finite version of deity; outside of ourselves, Christianity fails to get Jesus as Christ.

That’s all I’m saying.

“Are you saying that he is both rape and charity? Blackholes and quarks? Such a postulate simply doesn’t interest me. I have no reason to care about an unmoved movers such as that.”

Nothing unmoved or unmoving about it.

However, not being interested, is a valid response. I definitely want to respect it. Please remind me if I forget.

2014-03-31 11:14

Kevin Osborne – “I suspect we are all selfish, which is the point of existence here. Vot you tink?”

The Definition of Samsara.

———————————

The inertia of self interest is

The impulse of evolution.

Oscillating habitually in fixed orbit,

For eons of time.

Or,…

Awakening,

Navigate home.

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The Winding Path – 059

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2014-03-25 11:55

Brent Stanfield - “You may have to walk me through this a little more thoroughly. Isn’t illusion falsehood? Isn’t falsehood truly separate from the truth? You will need to expand on your concepts a bit more. They seem to esoteric to understand. Are they based on scripture? Or are they your philosophical musings?”

What you call falsehood, in this case, is the confusion of identity. It is like a dream.

Any degree of falseness in our experience, has it’s complementary opposite in a truth.

But the Truth of God has no opposite. No theology worth it’s salt ignores this.

2014-03-26 07:22

Brent Stanfield - “If the circumstances already existed then everybody would repent and believe.”

I’m not sure why that would be the case. Our dilemma as humans is very much rooted in this aspect of God that is aware of otherness.  The echo of the primordial I AM. The beginning of creation.

To end our dilemma would mean ending Creation. No otherness to confuse us. Probably not even possible for God.

The fact that you think in terms of Hell and Heaven means you don’t think this is the case either

I would say that Hell is a work in progress.  The results of our actions and thoughts. We become more and more trapped and impoverished in the world that we destroy out of ignorance.

It is God that suffers in ego bound darkness. It is God that finds the way back into the Light.

One Self.  Never lost to begin with.

Is’nt this what the life of Jesus demonstrates?

“Are you a buddhist?”

Not much into religion per se.

2014-03-27 09:52

Brent Stanfield - “You seem to be speaking in riddles. Fine, if confusion of identity is like a a dream; a dream is not reality. Falsehood is not truth. Confusion is not clarity.”

Falsehood is not the Truth of God. Falsehood is the opposite of truth. Are you saying that there is no falsehood? You are not being clear.”

Perhaps you could just assume that I am speaking clearly about a familiar topic; Just from another angle and with a different emphasis.

Knowing what is wrong with us, is the path to freedom. How else can we recognize the shepherd come to guide us home.

This is what I would call turning towards God.

The Falsehood that you stress, is the veil of illusion to me.

I of course, do not advocate remaining under the influence of illusion.

The more I “get” that my sense of self is not the property of some co-existent other sense of self, the more clearly I see the nature of God behind and through all experience.

This is the why of Love and Forgiveness.

2014-03-27 11:04

Brent Stanfield – “We are separated by God to the extent we are not virtuous.”

What is virtue? What is the lack of virtue?

Is the lack of virtue what you call horribleness?

What aspect of this virtue/horribleness dyad is so key to God that all of relative existence hinges on it?

What is the root of virtue? Of horribleness?

“The redemption of Christ is Christ bearing the punishment for our horribleness so that we do not have too.”

This is strong medicine. But still, we must accept the medicine for it to work. Does accepting the medicine make us virtuous and therefore free from punishment; no matter what?

Or, and this is important, by accepting the medicine, do we now know that we and God are one?

“The ‘Self of God’ is not ‘our self’. That would be a truly horrible thing. Are you God or am I? If you and I are on a plane together and it begins to crash, who do I pray too for deliverance? You or myself?”

I wasn’t going to address this because it casts such an absurd meaning to my words. However, it does demonstrate nicely how the images in the hall of mirrors process their reality while under the influence of their dreams.

Does Jesus mean to keep Christhood for himself?

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The Winding Path – 058

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2014-03-21 12:28

Brent Stanfield -”Darkness, evil, and sin are merely the absence of God. That is why we call them ‘ungodliness’ “.

I would call it absence of awareness of God. But for me God is all. Nothing is not God. The dilemma of mankind, is a dilemma that God shares.

Love and redemption are built in. The Father and the Son not different.

“All things that do not abide in God are nonbeing, lies, and darkness.”

So much of Christian theological debate seems to reinforce the illusion of separateness. Even at these rarified levels.

2014-03-21 21:23

Brent Stanfield – “Nonbeing is separation from God. I can agree in a sense that God is all in all. But that means that where there is ‘lack”/’evil’/’nonbeing’ there is separateness from God and it is not an illusion.”

For me it is like the confusion caused by a hall of mirrors.

Each mirror believing that it’s image is real. Something in and of it’s own self.

This is the illusion of separation. The root of sin.

If the separation were real there could be no realization of the seamless identity in God. No Christ.

God is the all in all. Including the seeming lack of being, as you call it; the suffering of our lives and the dream called death.

God’s love is not love of, or for, anything or anyone, but rather the very fabric of eternity.

2014-03-23 09:39

frjohnmorris responding to StevenLong - “The problem with people like you is that you presume to interpret the Scriptures for yourselves and ignore the way it has been interpreted through the centuries as expressed through the Holy Tradition of the Church. No contemporary theologian has the insight that the Holy Fathers and 7 Ecumenical Councils had on the true meaning of the Holy Scriptures. Do you actually believe that the entire Christian Church was wrong until John Calvin wrote his ‘Institutes’ in the 16th century? All of the ancient Fathers of the Church affirm free will. St. Irenaeus of Lyons who learned from St. Polycarp who learned from the Apostle John affirmed free will. St. Irenaeus’ credibility if far greater than that of John Calvin.”

Fr. John W. Morris

But you said yourself that salvation comes by Grace.

Scripture, Church and Holy Fathers. This is what we concern ourselves with while Grace ripens our hearts.

Even an illiterate, deaf, blind and mute life may awaken to the infinite God.

I have liked much that you say. But then you burden me with Tradition.

2014-03-23 09:48

StevenLong responding to frjohnmorris  - “And you just proved what I said. I pray that you will find true salvation through a personal relationship with Jesus Christ, and follow Him rather than your tradition.”

He is no more bound than you.

I have never understood why Christians refer to Christ as “Jesus Christ”.

He shows us the nature of our True Self. But we make him a god instead.

2014-03-24 10:33

The Irish Atheist responding to Guest - “Well, Calvin God must’ve thought my flaws were just too much for his delicate sensibilities. I guess I’ll just enjoy what time I have until I’m slow roasted over an open pit of torment.”

Guest responding to The Irish Atheist - “The beloved King David was a womanizing murderer. There are no flaws too great.”

He is not apologizing, just highlighting the strident absurdity of much that is being said.

There’s too much certainty in flatland, about what the shadows mean.

2014-03-24 11:45

N Good - “God is a person with a character that is perfect and flawless.”

I wish I could help people think more in terms like:

“God is the Entirety”
“God is Existence”
“God is Self”
“God is Infinitude”
“God is All”

So many squabbles are then resolved.

Nothing is not God. Jesus as Christ knew this. We are suppose to as well.

It is not redemption to be addicted to a soap opera version of Salvation; With winners and losers.

“A person whom we can approach but never understand, whom we can love only because He has first loved us,…”

If you cling to your separateness then you cling to the original sin; The ignorance of our seamless non-separateness.

Jesus demonstrated that this does not have to be so.

It is not us who God loves. God is us.

“…a person we can know and be known by on a very intimate level, but never a person that we can change.”

God is Change – Infinitely, and therefore utterly Still. The eternal present moment.

At least that’s how I’ve come to know God through Scripture and His Spirit.

Leave the scriptures behind then.

Grace is sufficient.

2014-03-25 10:38

Brent Stanfield - “why doesn’t he ensure that he brings about the circumstances that would cause everybody to repent and believe? Is he powerless to do it? Or might he have other purposes?”

The circumstances already exist. We always have the nature of God to turn to. When the suffering and foolish hubris of Man’s way becomes all too clear, we will.

When we do, is it not God that does so? Is it not Man that stops turning the wheel of Samsara?

Those that have difficulty will most surely be assisted by those who have found it easier.

2014-03-25 11:06

(Responding to Brent Stanfield)

Ah, now I’m starting to get this stuff. It is rooted in the idea of eternal death; An end point when the whole show wraps up.

Condemning creation to eternal relativity. Divorced from the absolute.

This can not be true. Sorry, whatever happens next, we are all in it together.

God’s love is only subject to degrees of gradation in man’s way of thinking. Those limits are transcended in Christ.

If the Bible confuses you, then burn it.

If the shoe doesn’t fit, don’t force it. Go bare footed.

If you meet the Buddha on the road, kill him.

2014-03-25 11:31

Brent Stanfield - ” My logic leads to the unavoidable conclusion that God willingly created conscious beings for a just destiny. If the destiny is horrible it is because the creature is horrible. “

If our “original sin” is to forget that we are seamlessly not-separate from God, then all our actions from that point on, reflect our self serving viewpoint.

We are not “horrible” in our essence. The horrors as well as the virtues are still, in truth, seamlessly not-separate from God.

The redemption of Christ, is knowing that the Self of God, is our self. In this awakening, “it is finished.”

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The Winding Path – 057

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2014-03-08 11:17

(Responding to Guest)

I have been working the atheist side of the isle for a while now. Defending the essence of the religious instinct.

My primary argument has been, that the “God” they say does not exist, is a man made artifact. It is a mortal’s attempt at a summation of the eternal. Always limited by our relative imperfection.

However, our images, scriptures, parables and beliefs are not God. They are fingers pointing at the Moon.

And even the above metaphor is inadequate. For both the fingers and the Moon are equal in their non-separateness in God; Not parts of, but in Truth, absolutely identical with.

It is time to take a look at some of the stuff that I have been defending.

Your comment has provided a good sampling of some clearly stated “Christian” beliefs.

Please don’t feel that I am picking on you. I would like to see how people counter, expand or embrace the following. It is a study of the underlying concepts found in statements such as:

God is a judge and as all judges do he has to fit the punishment to the crime.

Why is God a judge? As the All, God is both Judge and the judged.

Also why insert an act of judgement into the equation? The nature of the absolute, in perfect singularity with the relative, means that the process of being, is the very essence of justice. The equilibrium implied by perfect justice, is built in.

What you call “punishment”, I call the result of action.

But because he created us he loves us, and wants to spend eternity with us being with him.

What do you mean when you say “being with him”? We cannot, not be “with him”. The lesson of Jesus is that we are identical with “him”. However, in our forgetfulness of this, we act out of relative and seemingly separate self. Our actions increase our conviction that God, (if he even exists), is somehow distant and distinct from his creation.

I am tempted to say, that it is we who have cast God out of the garden.

As for eternity; Eternity is the ever present and all inclusive Now. Within this divine moment, we either live as complex and conflicted sentience, orbiting within a field of synchronous stimuli.

Or…

We open ourselves to our true and complete nature, which I am happy to call Christ.

However because of His holiness he cannot let sin enter His presence.

Sin, if it is thought of as ignorance of true Self, is by it’s own nature, the pain of separation.

That is why He had to send Jesus, His only Son. So that He could live the perfect life, die, and then come back to life, as the atonement for our sins.

This is the part of Christianity that I have the most difficulty with.

It ossifies the religion into the camp of dualism. Which, to me, cripples it. Forcing the most sincere pilgrims to step beyond the the boundaries of their religion. And doing so, they must then endure the abuse of crucifixion. Their former brethren convinced that it is they who serve the “Judging God’s” will, by casting out the apostate.

Without this knowledge the whole Bible is another “useless” “religious” system.

The Bible is a body of scripture with it’s own strengths and weaknesses. Exactly like any other body of scripture.

A religious system is not “useless” if it gets us in the ballpark. The final transformation must be by Grace; The perfect alignment with the unknowable Truth.

 

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The Winding Path – 056

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2014-02-28 12:13

brmckay - Direct experience is the fidelity that I refer to. This is “Our original face before our parents met”, “Tao”, “Christ”, “Buddha nature”.

adam – Which direct experience are you talking about.
Consciousness or the Shamanic Experience?
Or perhaps just emotional?

The process is a continuum until it’s not.

If there is a residue of egoic attachment, there will be a shadow of otherness.

With otherness there is experience. The play of Karma. Relativity.

At every stage, including writing in this blog, there is the potential to serve the process of evolution.

Evolution in the sense of Self Discovery; Enlightenment.

There is also the opportunity to slip back into a static orbit around the familiar turf of the personal.

For some this may be love, for others the wonders of quantum mechanics.

No problems except for the need to master cause and effect.

However, don’t forget, it is an enquiry into the infinitude of singularity using the only means available. Our own being.

2014-02-28 18:51

adam – This is all chemical in nature and can be induced chemically or physically.

I knew you were going to say that. Not sure why it matters.

Think more archetypally.

Look for underlying structure and universal principles.

2014-03-01 10:28

adam – Why think more archetypically?

Who is it that experiences the experience?

What is the prototype of Self?

Is Self awareness a universal principle?

The underlying structure is the brain, it’s chemical makeup at the time, the individuals cultural experience, expectation and state of mind at the time.

Is the brain and it’s temporal state not a component of Universe?

If there are universal principles it would seem to be that these experiences are available to all and we should be discussing this in context, not be wielded as a tool of political power

Good points.

Just as not all are made for the life of a “scientist”, most are not dedicated to “Enlightenment”.

So there is no shortage of human endeavor to amuse and frighten us.

The wheel will continue to be turned until it isn’t.

2014-03-02 09:23

(adam’s response)

“What is the prototype of Self?

Is Self awareness a universal principle?”

THAT is the problem, isn’t it.

The Self as a part of the universe or subservient to ‘authority’?

Isn’t it the ‘church’ who tries to redefine Self as part of their political party?

“Just as not all are made for the life of a “scientist”, most are not dedicated to “Enlightenment” .
That is because truly, one depends on the other.
Otherwise the churches and charlatans use it to deceive and bilk the masses.

Regarding Self; My inspiration has gravitated towards One Self, echoed throughout the hall of mirrors.

If I claim ownership, then I am part of the dilemma. My actions reinforcing the same confusion in others.

Issues of authority and politics, as part of that situation, are increasingly taken with a grain of salt.

 

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The Winding Path – 055

For the context of the following comments please click on the hyperlinks above them.

2014-02-24 17:24

(Responding to Matthew Alton)

It’s as simple as looking beyond the end of your own nose.

In both directions.

2014-02-24 17:32

(Responding to Matthew Alton)

I’m wrapping it up as well.

I have given you plenty of suggestions, references and clues.

All that is required is alert awareness and an earnest heart.

We call it beginners mind.

Practice for a year and then look me up. We can try again.

2014-02-27 11:32

(Responding to Steve Greene)

…we can speculate about the concept of a quantum field as the ground of all existence and call it “God” – but this is redundant, and also misleading because of all the corrupt baggage that is connected with the term “God” in human religious myths and traditions.

You are not allowed to dismiss the non-corrupt contributions.

I am pretty sure that you are not even aware of what you are dismissing.

In regard to “the study of totality”, science has unequivocally established its vast superiority over the thoughts of mystics on the mountains (or itinerant preachers on the Sea of Galilee or the deserts of Arabia)

Nonsense.

For one thing, the “thoughts” of a successful mystic is not what we are talking about.

Direct experience is the fidelity that I refer to. This is “Our original face before our parents met”, “Tao”, “Christ”, “Buddha nature”.

Nothing that I have said rules out the usefulness of science.

But, as long as it rules out the testimony of the mountain top sage, it is stuck with flat-landian perception and results.

If your problem is with Abrahamic religions, or even just religion, then that is what you should be talking about. Not chiding me for my choice of words.

2014-02-27 15:45

(Responding to adam)

If you spend all your time railing about the “mote”, the “log” remains.

If you want to understand, then go to the source yourself.

You will find things to be simpler and more precise than expected.

2014-02-27 15:28

(Responding to ourtechguy)

I think you may be addressing atheists past.

Mario was being relatively straight with you here.

Though the Zeus, Yahweh stuff gets old.

I wish people could get the hang of the distinction between saying something “exists”, and saying that something “is existence”.

The former is relative and the latter is not.

2014-02-27 16:18

(Responding to mdoc)

Be sure it’s not just other peoples ideas of God that you don’t believe in.

Enlightenment requires first the mind be empty of concepts, attachments, agendas.

Likes and dislikes cast shadows.

But what of the shadowless realm? Is it within reach?

Why not?

2014-02-27 16:46

(Responding to Madison Blane)

Actually I’d say that the search is bearing its fruit.

I’m hoping that you have realized, that thinking in terms of “God existing” is an artifact, and that your experience of freedom is the Truth; God as “existence” echoed in your own Life.

It is good to help others know this as well. But, respect must be paid to those that have taught us; Even if by the chafing of their ill fitting allegories.

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The Winding Path – 054

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2014-02-18 19:30

(responding to Matthew Alton)

Whatever it is that you specialize in, it does not seem to protect you from arrogance.

Also, you continue to fixate on religion, without understanding that “religion” does not equate to “God”.

Will you burn books, and erase history?

Once your friends, and what youth you manage to derail or reroute, are running things, will they euthanize the malingering fetishists?

Who will tell the Hopi that their dances do not hold the universe together?

Why does it not occur to you that your asperger’s may leave you short on compassion, empathy and imagination? Unable to pursue higher forms of theological exploration?

Or is it such a useful trait, that there are plans in place to start selecting for it?

What the world needs, is a renaissance of enlightened comprehension, not a wasteland of facts.

Religion informed by science. Not foolishly replaced by it.

Is string theory yesterdays news? Shouldn’t you wait for the whole story to unfold?

2014-02-21 07:52

(responding to Matthew Alton)

“Religion is an insult to human dignity – Steven Weinberg.”

Only the degraded examples that you are reacting to.

The Hopi have no power, exert no influence, and seem to do no real evil. I say leave them alone.

But what about their “dignity”?

I specialize in tormenting addle-brained mystics, pseudo-intellectuals, and theological obscurantists. These people make religion look respectable to the shallow public. I feel that they should be held accountable.

No offense taken.

I agree in principle to the desirability of a renaissance of enlightened comprehension. How on earth, though, is religion supposed to help us in this pursuit?

None of the “Paths” in your litany are examples of the comprehension that I refer to. Your list is an extreme subset of “religions”. The behaviors represent corruption and ignorance. (more accurate labels than the misuse of the term “religion”)

“Religion learns nothing. It is malignant.”

(Not worth commenting on.)

I have great confidence in the ability of the universe to provide us with endless chapters in the Great Story. I hope the whole story will never unfold. I hope it goes on forever. I share your distaste for stale facts. Let’s have new mysteries to investigate.

If only this was the lead in to your essays. It is what I mean by “religion informed by science”.

You are not an atheist; or if so, it is not really the motivation of the writings presented here. You are an antitheist and this is all politics.

Politics is the root of delusion.

2014-02-22

(responding to Matthew Alton)

Philosophy or not, it arises from the same impulse as all religion. However, like every phenomena in the universe, it is subject to evolutionary pressures. Being of the realm of mind; these pressures include reason, intuition, imagination, emotion, sensory awareness, memory, desire. In other words, the entire human being.

The word Universe means the totality. We don’t get to declare what that means. To set limits based on our personal inclination, just limits what we will know.

First rule is that the sum of the whole is greater than the sum of the parts. Emergence.

I call it God because that is what my ancestors called it. Imperfect approximation is the name of the game at all stages. What matters, is the will to know with more fidelity. This drives evolution.

If your version of science lacks the ability to accommodate the study of totality, then you need to pass the ball to your intuitive brethren. They can pass it back to you when you prove ready to resume the quest.

Politics is samsara. The actions, attitudes and desires that arise from it, are of the nature of sin. The true meaning of this “western” term, is the ignorance of our non-separation from all that is.

We humans are greater than the sum of our parts; in exact correspondence to our source.

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The Winding Path – 053

For the context of the following comments please click on the hyperlinks above them.

2014-02-10 10:52

My inside voice responding to Anton -
Actually you said: “if we’re just evolved primates… In that case, what’s the point of creating a more just society? Why should we care about human endeavor at all?”

There are plenty of reasons to care about justice and the achievements of humanity without believing in the supernatural. That you can’t think of any seems a tragic failure of imagination.

Actually, here is the quote from start to finish:

Anton – We’re just evolved primates, they say, our joys and passions are just neurochemistry, and anyone who asserts that humans are more than just that may as well be singing about fairies and angels. In that case, what’s the point of creating a more just society? Why should we care about human endeavor at all?

How many times must we hear that belief in God is equivalent to belief in unicorns? I don’t care if there are people for whom that might be true; there is no fidelity to truth in it’s recitation.

The atheist jihad seems to be about attacking the bottom rung of a ladder that represents the entire arc of human expression.

I would suggest first seeing where we have been; Then extend our experience, with your own.

The enquiry needs empiricism without the nihilism; The mastery of which, will reveal that using the term “supernatural”, to explain anything, is for kindergartners. Someone of your capacity should be well beyond that, but you squander your time, bullying your inner child.

2014-02-15 13:58

My inside voice - My point was only that what we are: stardust, forged in the cosmic furnaces, arranged into the awesome complexity of living systems over billions of years, is enough.

I actually don’t argue with this. And don’t see a contradiction.

Why do we need to be more than that to be worth something to you?

I wish I hadn’t come off as attacking you personally. My guess is that we are both starting to generalize and are talking to an aggregate of previous conversations.

I learned a new term yesterday at a symposium on consciousness. “The Hard Problem“.

I also learned that the Buddha did not address the Singularity, just that there is no self.

I only differ in how I would say this. Preferring to emphasize the illusory nature of the personal sense of self. And tracing reality to it’s prototype.

The Buddha not referencing the Singularity, is understandable; By it’s nature, it can not be described. And doing so, may excite an attachment to “God”, which would delay liberation from the wheel of death and rebirth.

I am “attached” to the quest for “God” awareness. At some point, when this attachment has served it’s purpose, I will leave it behind. But for now, it is my “Path”, and fills the days with purpose.

2014-02-15 16:15

My inside voice – Well, I’m still asking, and I still haven’t heard. If you believe in something that makes us more than primates, and it’s not supernatural, then what is it? You can assume “supernatural” is an insult if you like, but I meant it to be descriptive not pejorative; that what you are talking about is not measurable in any way in this universe. Are you saying that what you believe (a “seamless connection to god”?) is measurable in some way in this universe?

Supernatural indicates to me: Something outside of nature. I’m saying that the Entirety is nature; Including its origin in the infinitum of singularity. I say “seamless” because, when is is taken as a whole. That is what it means.

From my understanding, the way to measure this is to step out of the finite and know it as it is.

Kevin Osborne, (the one someone labeled a relativist), has offered suggestions that might help: – Just hear me say it, while holding your own view. – Thus approaching the “freedom” to be found, in seeing everything as true.

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The Winding Path – 052

For the context of the following comments please click on the hyperlinks above them.

2014-02-03 20:14

allegro63 responding to My inside voice – Yes, I believe Jesus is divine, Jesus and God are one in the same. I, of course can’t prove it.

I would say that you can prove it.

Jesus and God are one and the same. As are we. Though, we are a tangled mess of confused identity. Jesus knows that he is God 100%. Crucifixion is what the world does to us. He passes through unfazed. Shows us how by his own being.

If not divine, what then? A meaningless bag of chemicals?

2014-02-11 18:50

Steve Greene – “If not divine, what then? A meaningless bag of chemicals?”

Otherwise known as: False dichotomy.

What is false about it?

We haven’t really come to any consensus about the term “divine” yet.

2014-02-12 11:04

Steve Greene – Are you trying to say you’ve never heard of the fallacy of false dichotomy? Seriously?

So then, “divine” or “sacred” represent a sufficiently acceptable and possible quality

But…

I have wrongly placed this in exclusive opposition to “meaninglessness”?

My apologies. But we are obviously playing this game by different rules. I thought it made sense. At least to my satisfaction.

2014-02-12 11:15

I suppose I could have substituted “meaningful”; But from what I gather from these conversations, even this quality can not be considered to apply; The reality that science describes, being devoid of it.

However, since I am not bound by such, I will acknowledge the grandeur of it ALL, in words of my choice.  

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