The Winding Path – 065

For the context of the following comments please click on the hyperlinks above them.

2014-04-20 19:57

(Responding to a post by John Shore.)

Ishvara, unencumbered by karma. Knower, known and knowing.

Avatar. Incarnation of God. Because we need it to resolve our doubt.

Pole star of the soul.

2014-04-20 20:10

(Responding to ortcutt who was responding to the post by John Shore)

When you contemplate the nature of God, what faculties do you engage for the best results?

2014-04-21 09:18

ortcutt – “Senses, statistics, reason, etc…. The usuals.”

Statistics is new to me in this context. It would be interesting to see some examples of it’s application.

Can I assume that “etc…. The usuals.” includes imagination, inspiration, intuition, hopes, dreams, love, etc.?

And then of course, the advanced list:  being, self, and awareness.

2014-04-20 20:28

(Responding to ortcutt)

Given a limited (or at least so it seems), amount of time, what do you want to invest it in?

Moths and rust are great teachers. But once the lesson is learned, what next?

2014-04-21 10:40

Tim Wilcox - ” Therefore, Jesus is no more divine than you or I and he did not intend for us to believe that we are any less divine than he was. With this in mind, if you are still going to claim that Jesus is God, then you would have to claim that we ALL are God, or at least a part of Him.”

God is All. Therefor what you say starts to be true. But I find it unsatisfactory.

I would go further. There is only one Self. The I AM. What we experience as ourselves (complete with hopes, fears, desires, sorrows, genetic lineage, history, birth and death) is the echo of that primordial awareness of being. Fractalized infinitely within it’s own self.

God is us. But then what?

Christ is the knowing it to be so. No ownership, no separation.

Certainly not pretending to divinity.

2014-04-21 11:18

Jill – “My excessively idealized notion is that religion would bring humanity closer together, not divide us so bitterly.”

I think that there is no getting around the individual journey of it all. It is nice to have others with whom to share the snapshots with, but ultimately we are alone. As is God. As was Jesus on the cross.

And yet… aloneness is the whole story. Once ego is seen for what it is.

2014-04-21 15:57

(Responding to Jill)

Various forms of inertia?

Competition, predation. dominance and submission?

Karma ripening?

Otherness in general?

Gain and loss?

I am often afraid.

But who is it that suffers? Who dies?

Who am I? Who is it that asks the question?

I am grateful for the times that I’m not so much a part of the problem, and hope to get better at it. But even that is ego, speculating on it’s virtues.

What a great wonder True Awakening must be! But even this thought casts a shadow.

I hope your friend is ok no matter what.

2014-04-21 16:28

(Responding to Jill)

There is the absolute and there is the relative version of aloneness to consider.

The relative type is by it’s nature, suffering. This is our cross.

The absolute singularity, has no other. It is Love.

 

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The Winding Path – 064

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2014-04-18 10:36

(Responding to blog post by godschildren58)

Despite the fact that you have used your friends life and death to make a point for the Christian allegory, you seem to redeem the situation with the following comment.

godschildren58 – ”Did Allen make it into heaven some many ask. Nobody knows but God, and this is why we are never to pass judgement on others, for Only God knows what it is their heart and what events took place before death took them.”

But then you lead the witness with the following.

“My question to you is this, “Who was right and who was wrong? All I can say to you is yes, it is a tragedy. What profits a man if he gains the whole world only to lose his soul? “

To me it seems that you have done a disservice to the memory of your friend.

Allen’s sense for God was not known to you and possibly not to himself, but what is this demon business?

I will ask; “What is a demon?”  Where does it come from? What sustains it?

2014-04-18 19:11

godschildren58 – ”It is better to disserve a friend so that others will learn rather than have others make the same mistakes.”

So you actually have determined that he was wrong without knowing his heart or God’s determination?

”Just as Judas was `Tagged` so are there many millions of others.”

It always seemed to me, that Judas was chosen to betray him. Somebody had to do it.

 “God is true and does not change His Laws. Throughout the Bible when people Sinned, God said the wicked shall die young and those who keep His law shall live a long and full life.”

So, the reward of virtue is to live a long life?

”Sin is separation from God. . .so every Human born is born into Sin.”

Even though we are advised to become innocent like children?

” I did not make the Rules nor God’s Laws. . .”

Why are they to be thought of as rules rather than the natural relationship of cause and effect?

”I’m only the messenger.”

Is this a self proclaimed status? Are there checks and balances?

” I have seen death and those who where taken before their time should have.”

Before their time?

”Demons are fallen Angels who `in my terms` thought they didn’t need God to exist just like man is doing today.”

I find that the sin of “separation from God” is the problem. This is a fundamental error of identity. In Truth we can not possibly exist without God. So our “sin” is actually the utter ignorance of non-separateness.

This would go for Demons as well.

In cases where people cling to atheism and reject god/s it is actually the various ideas of god that they reject. Finding them absurd. But, ideas about God are only ideas. God is a given. God is all. We are not separate but only think in those terms.

”When you don’t depend on God for your existence you are in ‘Sin’.”

Again, we are ignorant of God as the entirety. Thinking that creation is somehow outside and God is looking in. God is existence. Man acts out of a dream. The result is pain and suffering and the fear of death.

Jesus demonstrated that death is not real.

”This is why Jesus said you can not serve God and Money (Government has made mankind slaves to the system) for their existence.”

“Forgive them Father for they know not what they do.”

”Demons were created by God and just like Demons God sets the Laws and Rules. Break the laws and there is a price to pay. Man has a `Free Will` step out of the light and Satan and his demons will `Tag` you.”

Why? Makes no sense.

We live in confusion and that confusion can be overcome. The reward is knowing the Truth; that God is all. The pain of relative existence is only a dream. And ask yourself, who is it that in Truth, is having that dream?

”Just as they did to the Apostles. Jesus forewarned Simon to Pray always for Satan wanted him. . .Step out the light and you will be `Tagged` just as they were.”

This type of god that you serve, has a shadow called Satan?

”Pray always as Jesus taught us to do.”

Yes, let’s do that.

 

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The Winding Path – 063

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2014-04-17 11:46

(Responding to Matthew Dancz)

The atheists that I have encountered usually seem to be rationalizing around an emotional reaction.

Banning theological enquiry leaves a person stunted and sophomoric. This condition has it’s twin in the rigid and didactic crustacean we know as the fundamentalist.

A human being may be the pinnacle of evolution, or not. This depends entirely on inspiration. Through faith, reason or experience.

Born and sustained in infinite potential, the singularity; best known as God. We are not different or separate from this. How can it be otherwise?

2014-04-17 08:48

(Kevin Osborne responding to Matthew Dancz)

“Ascribing an all-knowing feature to science is as arbitrary as any so called religious notion. Not only is no one individual aware of all science but earthly observational science as a class is a bit short on complete knowledge of everything.
So to believe in “science” is to believe, gosh, what you want to believe. What is the difference between that and the cauldron of evil bubbly you call religion, without apparently differentiating among the bubbles?
Be willing to see everything as it is and you will see more. That seems obvious, even scientific.”

 

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The Winding Path – 062

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2014-04-11 11:14

 Ford1968 - “But can we see God in the face of those who perpetuate it?”

On occasion I remember this too. To not forget it is my hope.

Just recognizing that it is the Truth is it’s own proof.

“My inability to do that is a moral failure which, I believe, is an affront to Christ.”

I prefer not to think so much in terms of “moral failure” or “affront to Christ”. But rather, just not yet Christ. Since trying to please, or live up to an external and separate God, reinforces the very habits that keep it so.

2014-04-15 08:50

Albert Swanson - “If you are so eager to toss out the bible why would you even believe in Jesus at all? Most of the people on this site seem to really pick and choose with the bible, like its a buffet or something. You can have a little of this but you don’t need this. Until the chef comes up and says you have to take the whole thing and then your response is `forget it! I don’t want any of it then!`”

They’re Christians, not Biblists.

If one has the connection, then that is the authority.

2014-04-15 10:35

Albert Swanson - “I’m merely trying to help supposed Christians on their walk.”

And who do you suppose is trying to help you?

“I have many mentors in my life who are always leading and helping me and I am very thankful to have them.”

And so, you also pick and choose.

 

2014-04-15 08:58

 Albert Swanson – “Again your trying to set terms for God.”

And this is somehow different than restricting God to a few scraps of paper to explain things?

“What else do we have to go by… oh your feelings right?”

Christ is nothing if not knowable.

But then I should elaborate a bit.

Knower and what is known. Not different. Just like God.

Not a deity! But the nature of Infinitude.

How will your book show you this?

2014-04-15 09:52

allegro63 - “Everyone interprets scripture as best they can, unless we allow others to do that for us.”

Yes! Not even their own finger pointing at the Moon. Another layer of abstraction. A Digression. A Golden Calf.

2014-04-15 14:58

allegro63 - “Scripture can be a good place to start for all this, but to me, its just a starting point. When I decided to set the book down, and look beyond ancient writings about the divine, that is when true wonder began.”

And yet they weren’t always ancient.

Much like these pages once.

Ordinary, simple and familiar.

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The Winding Path – 061

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2014-04-05 12:03

(Responding to Albert Swanson)

Luke 14:26, 33, “If anyone comes to Me, and does not hate his own father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters, yes, and even his own life, he cannot be My disciple…So likewise, whoever of you does not forsake all that he has cannot be My disciple.”

I’m actually relieved that I only have a passing familiarity with the bible.

If I thought it was my sole source for comprehension, my relationship to the divine would have withered up and blown away decades ago.

Is there any reason given, that the term “Hate” is used in the above quote from Luke?

Am I supposed to think that all human existence is vile and loathsome?

Or,…as I have concluded through other sources and direct contemplation; it is not what it seems on the surface. There is more.

Our small lives as people among other people, living on a planet bursting with countless expressions of life, is the realm of finite and relative experience.

It is rooted in, and not-different than it’s source. The infinite and absolute singularity of God.

We live our lives not knowing this. And in that state, we perpetuate good and bad, happiness and suffering.

What we don’t know, is the missing piece. Demonstrated by Jesus when he declared “I and the Father are one.”

The knowledge of this, is Christ. The Atman. Self.

If you don’t move towards, and ultimately into this awareness, then you live in what you refer to as sin.

This has nothing to do with being gay, adulterous, divorced, happy, sad or indifferent.

You just have not heard the call. No matter what you think the bible is saying.

2014-04-06 09:47

(Responding to Albert Swanson who was responding to allegro63)

No matter what countless Christians have fixated on about Jesus, he did not go around reciting a list of do’s and don’ts.

He demonstrated the nature of Christ in action amongst us.

The guidance he gave, was purposeful and to the point.

Showed us how to see our fundamental mistake. We live our lives blinded by self serving and myopic egoism. Our behaviors, no matter what they are, are only secondary and incidental artifacts of this condition.

We are ignorant of our our non-difference in God. The stronger the grip of this ignorance, the more pain our behavior causes. The more we trap ourselves and others in the maze.

He declared “I and the Father are one.”

Advised us to “Love God with all our heart, mind and soul” and to “Love our neighbors as our self.”

Saying that this, is “The whole of the Law.”

Went to his death without fear, because he knew the Truth; Death is not real.

What more do we need to get started? To begin finding our way out of the mess?

Yet people think he came to warn us, about a Moralistic and Judgemental God. One who must punish or reward, for a small subset of behaviors. And, only those percolating through popular consciousness at the time.

Paul was not Jesus, The Bible is not God, and it’s only the word of God, to the degree that you or I have cleared the fog from our eyes. Not much different than the daily news paper, once you’re really in the groove.

2014-04-07 09:57

Albert Swanson - “Inspired by God. If nothing in the bible is inspired by God than it might as well all be discounted.”

Why would you deny the voices that you debate the same status?

Answer: You have poured wax in your ears, and hear nothing but the echo of your own limitations.

2014-04-08 12:23

Albert Swanson – “Because I know the bible is Gods Word.”

How did you come by this knowledge?

2014-04-09 09:57

allegro63 - “Excellent question brmckay.”

I’m going all Socratic on him now. Sharing the workload.

Don’t really want to take away his certainty. It is a precious thing. Compassion, empathy and veracity will have to come in their own time. It’s not up to me.

I wonder who the preachers and parents are, who have provided us such an abundance of convolution.

Naivete can be a virtue when approaching God. But this kind is different. It’s been preprocessed just to fill pews.

2014-04-14 10:17

Albert Swanson – “Did you really take that as being literal? I took that as he wants you to put himself (Jesus) above yourself and even your family. That seems to be backed up in other areas of the bible that state that God must always come first. Sometimes the writers would make an overly powerful statement in an attempt to make a point. I think it is fair to say that not everything in the bible is literal. And before you mention the topic of homosexuality.. think about this.. what is the heart of the message about homosexuality? What point would they be trying to make if it was anything other than that homosexuality is a sin?”

The spiritual sense of Luke’s quotation is not lost on me. It is the essence of Yoga saadhana. But forgive me if I did not assume you had grasped the nuance.

In relationship to this; i.e. the turning away from the trance of worldly things, the topic of homosexuality does not leap to the forefront of my thoughts.

Let’s look at Capitalism, Hedonism, Sexism,  Racism, Terrorism, Militarism, Materialism, Nationalism.

Scientism, Fundamentalism, Egotism.

These are organic developments rooted in the primal sin of not knowing our non-difference from the One source. We live in a dream of individual self interest. Our lives wasted grasping after the ephemeral and finite. Running away from death.

Being homosexual is no more a sin than being born a human being. Especially in increasingly overpopulated, spiritually impoverished, toxified time and space.

We have all contributed to the chaos. Stop deflecting your own responsibility.

The Bible is not the solution. Awakening to Christ is.

Stop persecuting your brothers and sisters for the variety of libido they are born with. You need to concentrate on sorting out your own condition.

 

 

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The Winding Path – 060

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2014-03-29 11:25

(Responding to James_Jarvis)

Hell is a work in process.

Oil spills, war, genocide, internet squabbles.

Nuclear holocaust. Recombinant genetics.

Eternity, is this moment; The here and now.

If we do not awake to the understanding, that our self is not a separate thing from the One Self, then our actions perpetuate the selfish, agenda driven, fear of dying self.

Just because somebody redacted reincarnation from the bible, doesn’t mean we don’t have to live in the mess we create.

2014-03-29 11:48

(Continuation of response to James_Jarvis)

As for Free Will:

As we are not separate from God. In fact, identical with God; As Jesus has shown. Then whatever mess we make, God suffers as well.

The Love of God must be something other than a love for you or for me. That kind of love requires a possible absence of it. The kind of love God usually gets from us.

Free Will is like that too. As infinite potentiality; Not subject to time; God, as the all, the entirety; Does not know what happens next; Except but through us.

2014-03-29 12:15

Grotoff - “There’s nothing logically stopping him from sending 7+ billion avatars of himself to walk among us and talk with us.”

7+ billion is a tiny finite number.

The grace of the Guru is infinite. (Oops, sorry “Holy Ghost”)

“If the alternative is billions in eternal hellfire, then why isn’t [he?] doing anything?”

Free will. The very nature of relativity. We must definitely resolve the part we play in keeping it so.

2014-03-30 09:10

Grotoff - “That’s just ridiculous. “

If your gripe is with YAHWEH, ok, but I prefer to go to the source myself. I want to actually understand. Not dictate terms.

Infinities of numbers are only relative infinities.

Absolute Infinitude, not having an antithesis, is a better place to start.

“… and it just doesn’t make sense for him to be hiding.”

If there is nothing that is not God, where is there to hide?

The intimacy that you seek is the whole story. Your sense of self is not what it seems. Think about it.

2014-03-30 09:33

Tracy - “I guess people have always accepted from that scripture that ‘God knows all things, and that he knows the beginning from the end’ to mean that he knows all things, from beginning to end :) I don’t think it means what we have thought it meant.”

Scripture serves it’s purpose only up to a point.

The rest of the journey is a surrender to Grace.

It doesn’t happen if we have to check the rule book first.

2014-03-31 10:43

 Grotoff - “I’m pretty sure that Orthodox Christianity would never claim that ‘there is nothing that is not God’.”

To the best of my understanding, that is why your complaints seem unanswered.

Perpetuating a dualistic and anthropomorphic visualization of God keeps us bound to original sin.

To the degree that it insists on limiting God to a shadow casting, and therefore finite version of deity; outside of ourselves, Christianity fails to get Jesus as Christ.

That’s all I’m saying.

“Are you saying that he is both rape and charity? Blackholes and quarks? Such a postulate simply doesn’t interest me. I have no reason to care about an unmoved movers such as that.”

Nothing unmoved or unmoving about it.

However, not being interested, is a valid response. I definitely want to respect it. Please remind me if I forget.

2014-03-31 11:14

Kevin Osborne – “I suspect we are all selfish, which is the point of existence here. Vot you tink?”

The Definition of Samsara.

———————————

The inertia of self interest is

The impulse of evolution.

Oscillating habitually in fixed orbit,

For eons of time.

Or,…

Awakening,

Navigate home.

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The Winding Path – 059

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2014-03-25 11:55

Brent Stanfield - “You may have to walk me through this a little more thoroughly. Isn’t illusion falsehood? Isn’t falsehood truly separate from the truth? You will need to expand on your concepts a bit more. They seem to esoteric to understand. Are they based on scripture? Or are they your philosophical musings?”

What you call falsehood, in this case, is the confusion of identity. It is like a dream.

Any degree of falseness in our experience, has it’s complementary opposite in a truth.

But the Truth of God has no opposite. No theology worth it’s salt ignores this.

2014-03-26 07:22

Brent Stanfield - “If the circumstances already existed then everybody would repent and believe.”

I’m not sure why that would be the case. Our dilemma as humans is very much rooted in this aspect of God that is aware of otherness.  The echo of the primordial I AM. The beginning of creation.

To end our dilemma would mean ending Creation. No otherness to confuse us. Probably not even possible for God.

The fact that you think in terms of Hell and Heaven means you don’t think this is the case either

I would say that Hell is a work in progress.  The results of our actions and thoughts. We become more and more trapped and impoverished in the world that we destroy out of ignorance.

It is God that suffers in ego bound darkness. It is God that finds the way back into the Light.

One Self.  Never lost to begin with.

Is’nt this what the life of Jesus demonstrates?

“Are you a buddhist?”

Not much into religion per se.

2014-03-27 09:52

Brent Stanfield - “You seem to be speaking in riddles. Fine, if confusion of identity is like a a dream; a dream is not reality. Falsehood is not truth. Confusion is not clarity.”

Falsehood is not the Truth of God. Falsehood is the opposite of truth. Are you saying that there is no falsehood? You are not being clear.”

Perhaps you could just assume that I am speaking clearly about a familiar topic; Just from another angle and with a different emphasis.

Knowing what is wrong with us, is the path to freedom. How else can we recognize the shepherd come to guide us home.

This is what I would call turning towards God.

The Falsehood that you stress, is the veil of illusion to me.

I of course, do not advocate remaining under the influence of illusion.

The more I “get” that my sense of self is not the property of some co-existent other sense of self, the more clearly I see the nature of God behind and through all experience.

This is the why of Love and Forgiveness.

2014-03-27 11:04

Brent Stanfield – “We are separated by God to the extent we are not virtuous.”

What is virtue? What is the lack of virtue?

Is the lack of virtue what you call horribleness?

What aspect of this virtue/horribleness dyad is so key to God that all of relative existence hinges on it?

What is the root of virtue? Of horribleness?

“The redemption of Christ is Christ bearing the punishment for our horribleness so that we do not have too.”

This is strong medicine. But still, we must accept the medicine for it to work. Does accepting the medicine make us virtuous and therefore free from punishment; no matter what?

Or, and this is important, by accepting the medicine, do we now know that we and God are one?

“The ‘Self of God’ is not ‘our self’. That would be a truly horrible thing. Are you God or am I? If you and I are on a plane together and it begins to crash, who do I pray too for deliverance? You or myself?”

I wasn’t going to address this because it casts such an absurd meaning to my words. However, it does demonstrate nicely how the images in the hall of mirrors process their reality while under the influence of their dreams.

Does Jesus mean to keep Christhood for himself?

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The Winding Path – 058

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2014-03-21 12:28

Brent Stanfield -”Darkness, evil, and sin are merely the absence of God. That is why we call them ‘ungodliness’ “.

I would call it absence of awareness of God. But for me God is all. Nothing is not God. The dilemma of mankind, is a dilemma that God shares.

Love and redemption are built in. The Father and the Son not different.

“All things that do not abide in God are nonbeing, lies, and darkness.”

So much of Christian theological debate seems to reinforce the illusion of separateness. Even at these rarified levels.

2014-03-21 21:23

Brent Stanfield – “Nonbeing is separation from God. I can agree in a sense that God is all in all. But that means that where there is ‘lack”/’evil’/’nonbeing’ there is separateness from God and it is not an illusion.”

For me it is like the confusion caused by a hall of mirrors.

Each mirror believing that it’s image is real. Something in and of it’s own self.

This is the illusion of separation. The root of sin.

If the separation were real there could be no realization of the seamless identity in God. No Christ.

God is the all in all. Including the seeming lack of being, as you call it; the suffering of our lives and the dream called death.

God’s love is not love of, or for, anything or anyone, but rather the very fabric of eternity.

2014-03-23 09:39

frjohnmorris responding to StevenLong - “The problem with people like you is that you presume to interpret the Scriptures for yourselves and ignore the way it has been interpreted through the centuries as expressed through the Holy Tradition of the Church. No contemporary theologian has the insight that the Holy Fathers and 7 Ecumenical Councils had on the true meaning of the Holy Scriptures. Do you actually believe that the entire Christian Church was wrong until John Calvin wrote his ‘Institutes’ in the 16th century? All of the ancient Fathers of the Church affirm free will. St. Irenaeus of Lyons who learned from St. Polycarp who learned from the Apostle John affirmed free will. St. Irenaeus’ credibility if far greater than that of John Calvin.”

Fr. John W. Morris

But you said yourself that salvation comes by Grace.

Scripture, Church and Holy Fathers. This is what we concern ourselves with while Grace ripens our hearts.

Even an illiterate, deaf, blind and mute life may awaken to the infinite God.

I have liked much that you say. But then you burden me with Tradition.

2014-03-23 09:48

StevenLong responding to frjohnmorris  - “And you just proved what I said. I pray that you will find true salvation through a personal relationship with Jesus Christ, and follow Him rather than your tradition.”

He is no more bound than you.

I have never understood why Christians refer to Christ as “Jesus Christ”.

He shows us the nature of our True Self. But we make him a god instead.

2014-03-24 10:33

The Irish Atheist responding to Guest - “Well, Calvin God must’ve thought my flaws were just too much for his delicate sensibilities. I guess I’ll just enjoy what time I have until I’m slow roasted over an open pit of torment.”

Guest responding to The Irish Atheist - “The beloved King David was a womanizing murderer. There are no flaws too great.”

He is not apologizing, just highlighting the strident absurdity of much that is being said.

There’s too much certainty in flatland, about what the shadows mean.

2014-03-24 11:45

N Good - “God is a person with a character that is perfect and flawless.”

I wish I could help people think more in terms like:

“God is the Entirety”
“God is Existence”
“God is Self”
“God is Infinitude”
“God is All”

So many squabbles are then resolved.

Nothing is not God. Jesus as Christ knew this. We are suppose to as well.

It is not redemption to be addicted to a soap opera version of Salvation; With winners and losers.

“A person whom we can approach but never understand, whom we can love only because He has first loved us,…”

If you cling to your separateness then you cling to the original sin; The ignorance of our seamless non-separateness.

Jesus demonstrated that this does not have to be so.

It is not us who God loves. God is us.

“…a person we can know and be known by on a very intimate level, but never a person that we can change.”

God is Change – Infinitely, and therefore utterly Still. The eternal present moment.

At least that’s how I’ve come to know God through Scripture and His Spirit.

Leave the scriptures behind then.

Grace is sufficient.

2014-03-25 10:38

Brent Stanfield - “why doesn’t he ensure that he brings about the circumstances that would cause everybody to repent and believe? Is he powerless to do it? Or might he have other purposes?”

The circumstances already exist. We always have the nature of God to turn to. When the suffering and foolish hubris of Man’s way becomes all too clear, we will.

When we do, is it not God that does so? Is it not Man that stops turning the wheel of Samsara?

Those that have difficulty will most surely be assisted by those who have found it easier.

2014-03-25 11:06

(Responding to Brent Stanfield)

Ah, now I’m starting to get this stuff. It is rooted in the idea of eternal death; An end point when the whole show wraps up.

Condemning creation to eternal relativity. Divorced from the absolute.

This can not be true. Sorry, whatever happens next, we are all in it together.

God’s love is only subject to degrees of gradation in man’s way of thinking. Those limits are transcended in Christ.

If the Bible confuses you, then burn it.

If the shoe doesn’t fit, don’t force it. Go bare footed.

If you meet the Buddha on the road, kill him.

2014-03-25 11:31

Brent Stanfield - ” My logic leads to the unavoidable conclusion that God willingly created conscious beings for a just destiny. If the destiny is horrible it is because the creature is horrible. “

If our “original sin” is to forget that we are seamlessly not-separate from God, then all our actions from that point on, reflect our self serving viewpoint.

We are not “horrible” in our essence. The horrors as well as the virtues are still, in truth, seamlessly not-separate from God.

The redemption of Christ, is knowing that the Self of God, is our self. In this awakening, “it is finished.”

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The Winding Path – 057

For the context of the following comments please click on the hyperlinks above them.

2014-03-08 11:17

(Responding to Guest)

I have been working the atheist side of the isle for a while now. Defending the essence of the religious instinct.

My primary argument has been, that the “God” they say does not exist, is a man made artifact. It is a mortal’s attempt at a summation of the eternal. Always limited by our relative imperfection.

However, our images, scriptures, parables and beliefs are not God. They are fingers pointing at the Moon.

And even the above metaphor is inadequate. For both the fingers and the Moon are equal in their non-separateness in God; Not parts of, but in Truth, absolutely identical with.

It is time to take a look at some of the stuff that I have been defending.

Your comment has provided a good sampling of some clearly stated “Christian” beliefs.

Please don’t feel that I am picking on you. I would like to see how people counter, expand or embrace the following. It is a study of the underlying concepts found in statements such as:

God is a judge and as all judges do he has to fit the punishment to the crime.

Why is God a judge? As the All, God is both Judge and the judged.

Also why insert an act of judgement into the equation? The nature of the absolute, in perfect singularity with the relative, means that the process of being, is the very essence of justice. The equilibrium implied by perfect justice, is built in.

What you call “punishment”, I call the result of action.

But because he created us he loves us, and wants to spend eternity with us being with him.

What do you mean when you say “being with him”? We cannot, not be “with him”. The lesson of Jesus is that we are identical with “him”. However, in our forgetfulness of this, we act out of relative and seemingly separate self. Our actions increase our conviction that God, (if he even exists), is somehow distant and distinct from his creation.

I am tempted to say, that it is we who have cast God out of the garden.

As for eternity; Eternity is the ever present and all inclusive Now. Within this divine moment, we either live as complex and conflicted sentience, orbiting within a field of synchronous stimuli.

Or…

We open ourselves to our true and complete nature, which I am happy to call Christ.

However because of His holiness he cannot let sin enter His presence.

Sin, if it is thought of as ignorance of true Self, is by it’s own nature, the pain of separation.

That is why He had to send Jesus, His only Son. So that He could live the perfect life, die, and then come back to life, as the atonement for our sins.

This is the part of Christianity that I have the most difficulty with.

It ossifies the religion into the camp of dualism. Which, to me, cripples it. Forcing the most sincere pilgrims to step beyond the the boundaries of their religion. And doing so, they must then endure the abuse of crucifixion. Their former brethren convinced that it is they who serve the “Judging God’s” will, by casting out the apostate.

Without this knowledge the whole Bible is another “useless” “religious” system.

The Bible is a body of scripture with it’s own strengths and weaknesses. Exactly like any other body of scripture.

A religious system is not “useless” if it gets us in the ballpark. The final transformation must be by Grace; The perfect alignment with the unknowable Truth.

 

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The Winding Path – 056

For the context of the following comments please click on the hyperlinks above them.

2014-02-28 12:13

brmckay - Direct experience is the fidelity that I refer to. This is “Our original face before our parents met”, “Tao”, “Christ”, “Buddha nature”.

adam – Which direct experience are you talking about.
Consciousness or the Shamanic Experience?
Or perhaps just emotional?

The process is a continuum until it’s not.

If there is a residue of egoic attachment, there will be a shadow of otherness.

With otherness there is experience. The play of Karma. Relativity.

At every stage, including writing in this blog, there is the potential to serve the process of evolution.

Evolution in the sense of Self Discovery; Enlightenment.

There is also the opportunity to slip back into a static orbit around the familiar turf of the personal.

For some this may be love, for others the wonders of quantum mechanics.

No problems except for the need to master cause and effect.

However, don’t forget, it is an enquiry into the infinitude of singularity using the only means available. Our own being.

2014-02-28 18:51

adam – This is all chemical in nature and can be induced chemically or physically.

I knew you were going to say that. Not sure why it matters.

Think more archetypally.

Look for underlying structure and universal principles.

2014-03-01 10:28

adam – Why think more archetypically?

Who is it that experiences the experience?

What is the prototype of Self?

Is Self awareness a universal principle?

The underlying structure is the brain, it’s chemical makeup at the time, the individuals cultural experience, expectation and state of mind at the time.

Is the brain and it’s temporal state not a component of Universe?

If there are universal principles it would seem to be that these experiences are available to all and we should be discussing this in context, not be wielded as a tool of political power

Good points.

Just as not all are made for the life of a “scientist”, most are not dedicated to “Enlightenment”.

So there is no shortage of human endeavor to amuse and frighten us.

The wheel will continue to be turned until it isn’t.

2014-03-02 09:23

(adam’s response)

“What is the prototype of Self?

Is Self awareness a universal principle?”

THAT is the problem, isn’t it.

The Self as a part of the universe or subservient to ‘authority’?

Isn’t it the ‘church’ who tries to redefine Self as part of their political party?

“Just as not all are made for the life of a “scientist”, most are not dedicated to “Enlightenment” .
That is because truly, one depends on the other.
Otherwise the churches and charlatans use it to deceive and bilk the masses.

Regarding Self; My inspiration has gravitated towards One Self, echoed throughout the hall of mirrors.

If I claim ownership, then I am part of the dilemma. My actions reinforcing the same confusion in others.

Issues of authority and politics, as part of that situation, are increasingly taken with a grain of salt.

 

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