The Winding Path – 210

For the context of the following comments and to reply, please click on the DATE/TIME above them.

2015-12-23 08:27

IrrationalHumanBeing – “…The 1-size-fits-all American Dream model seems elusive, precarious, or non-fulfilling like all the leave-it-to-beaver, married-with-children and moving-on-up and huxtable myths.

Many folks are waking up every morning, teens and adults, and asking … is this my mundane purpose in life:

1. Graduate from HS or get my GED?
2. Get a dead-end poverty-wage job?
3. Go to JC or a 4-year college for an associates or bachelors?
4. Get a dead-end poverty-wage job?
5. Go to a university for a masters or doctorates?
6. Get a precarious lower-middle income job?
7. Have lots of singe person sex until what?
8. Find a monogamous lover … who probably cheats on me or me them?
9. Procreate and become a single parent or two-parents … and then divorce?
10. Get another degree cuz mine is useless, get another job cuz I hate mine, get another lover because we’re incompatible — start from GO … life stages 3 – 9 all over again, LOL?

11. Stop asking myself “What’s the meaning/purpose of my life … all human life?… and just humbly affirm that life only has the good, bad, and ugly meaning I and 7.4 billion other humans give it?

Let me meditate on these open-ended questions and hope the answers are forthcoming:)

There is a fortunate transformation waiting in the wings for everybody. Once one realizes that every moment is significant. The work begins. Your list of dead-ends describes the day-to-day of folks still huddled together at the bottom of the mountain.

For me it was at 21 when an intuition of enlightenment came. I now had something real to do. Life had one purpose. All perfectly expressed in this moment.

2015-12-23 14:24

IrrationalHumanBeing – “You speaking for 7.4 billion human beings?

I want to say, of course!, but realize that it depends on how you dissected my comment.

2015-12-23 17:24

IrrationalHumanBeing – “I took your wisdom at face value, albeit I 100% didn’t comprehend it. But that’s okay. I don’t grasp 99.99% of anything spiritual, god, or religious related. Maybe that’s how it’s supposed to be for some, many, or only me. I’m cool with that:)

I related to what you had said, and I threw in my 2 cents.

Now I find the “I 100% didn’t comprehend it” part, hard to imagine.

The unifying theme is the nature of God. Our common ground. All 7.4 billion and counting.

2015-12-25 08:29

IrrationalHumanBeing – “Oh, okay. So 7.4 billion humans, okay maybe many, minus myself, share a ‘belief in an invisible being’ and this ‘mass delusion’ connects us? Okay, I would partly agree with that. So have you persuaded DAESH (ISIS) to join this shared delusion? I sense they have their own version and its horrific violent, LOL.

I was talking in terms of True common ground. i.e. the un-caused cause.

The Experience of Existence.

You are surprising me with the this lesser god of us-and-them. Why worship at that alter? It is obviously a dead end.

2015-12-26 09:27

IrrationalHumanBeing – “No surprise.

You know humans create our gods, be it our romanticized version of a 21st century god … the same white-American-god that justified slavery, jim crow segregation, all subsequent racism, no vote for women and their second class citizenship, poverty wages for the poor, and never ending American imperialism wars … or all the other human gods that justified their historical and present day sins.

Yet humans still belive there’s some benevolent patriarch, definitely not divine female or non human attribute being, playing cosmic puppet master … according to some unknown master plan.

Nope, there’s just us and all those other species we have yet to become aware of and the infinite cosmos …. no supernature being, albeit I understand why many humans need this Mysticism Linus Blanket to maintain our frail sanity.

Happy Hoildays B. Much love to you and your family.

There are may stages to past through. “Supernatural” will fall by the wayside along with “skepticism”.

They only describe personal comfort zones. Habitual orbits and limitation.

“Infinite” on the other hand, has great potential to enliven one. At least it has for me. What is it really?

You seem done with this for now, and I don’t want to start chasing my tail, so I’ll say “thanks for the chat”, and wish you well too.


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The Winding Path – 209

For the context of the following comments and to reply, please click on the DATE/TIME above them.

2015-12-21 15:21

Little Bear – “My agreement isn’t necessary in order for what you believe to be true for you. Argument is simply dis-agreement. Why should that disappear? So that we can all pretend to get along?

Ceejae Devine – “Pretend? Isn’t finding common ground what we are all seeking here? No, I think once we get past disagreement, we can start focusing on sharing the beauty we know, building relationships, sharing ideas about how to improve our lives, sharing our stories with others who don’t know what to look for because there are a lot of people who are confused and sad and feeling hopeless.

Actually Little Bear is talking about the common ground.

Eternal, imperishable, undifferentiated and entire.

You are talking about your relationship to that. About being in orbit around it.

I’m not sure why, since the testimony of saints and sages is that reality is the Singularity.

2015-12-22 10:14

Ceejae Devine – “Little Bear’s reply was:

‘Finding a common ground? You must still be young . No.’

So I am not sure why you are telling me what he thinks.

I am not presenting theories about orbits. I don’t talk in abstractions. I have been presenting my perspectives from my concrete experiences. Perhaps the saints had the same personality types as many of the people in the “spiritual realm” that isn’t really spiritual because some of their views are just based on their personality types. Many spiritual people focus on the now, presence, love, stillness, and kindness as “spiritual” qualities, but they are simply a manifestation of at least one and perhaps a couple particular personality types.

“Reality is the Singularity?” What is that?

I experienced amplification in my mind as I spoke three words that described an object and something of that nature appeared the next day. I sat in a particular seat and another phenomenal event occurred that could not have occurred if anyone at the table had chosen different chairs. I was directed to follow a vague thought that led me to information about a number of concepts people claim are spiritual and found they aren’t so I wrote a book about the experience. There have been a number of other experiences that I prefer to tell as stories because that’s what they are. So that is my reality. God is active my life.

Synchronicity is the norm, in truth it is a constant. Because, we are not separate from God. No matter how it seems.

This is the “common ground”.

2015-12-22 10:14

Ceejae Devine – “Because no one has the Whole Truth, you just think you do. You proved part of my point, with your comment about stillness.

I only notice my experiences because of a reason you say is so? Quite the opposite, my experiences are so beautiful I can not not share them.

I have never heard anyone talk about the kinds of things I am experiencing, so I am not sure why you are telling me I am wrong in the way I am presenting them.

I share them because it is my choice. I don’t need to listen to men tell me because they have big, abstract perspectives about God, to go away, that my experiences and perspectives aren’t worthy enough to be part of the conversation.

What are you learning from the experiences? Where do they lead? I am not saying that God is not active in your life, only that it is inevitably so, since the fundamental non-difference from God is the fabric of reality.

Why are we fighting?

2015-12-21 15:53

Little Bear responding to Kevin Osborne – “You have to give up the personal (the ‘thing’ separate from the rest) in order to experience the non-personal (the EVERYTHING). It can be done.

Kevin Osborne – “In an instant, perhaps. Not necessarily abandonment of oneself, but my opinion.

Little Bear – “It only happens in the space of timelessness. In a moment of great attraction we drop the personal and enter that space (it’s only happened a few times in my life). The moment you’re back in time, personality is there again. Personality IS our identification with time. It’s our story. It has a beginning, middle, and end. But if you can drop the story (it actually carries weight – gravity – binding us to the horizontal plane), the lightness is literally out of this world amazing! We can’t abandon our personal self through an act of will EVER. Our will IS our personal aspect. It happens through powerful attraction. An attraction GREATER than our attachment to our selves.

Ceejae Devine – “You have your ideas and experiences about God. From what I found, it’s because you have a certain kind of personality. God connects with you via your personality. So that’s how you see God. God is connecting with me very specifically via aspects of my personality.

You only notice this because personality stops the flow to ponder the moments that it considers significant.

In reality as Little Bear is describing it from experience, the connection is seamless. Continuous. Perfectly still.

It is the illusion of separateness that makes things special or noxious. The personality creating a world of attractions and aversions.

This is the mortal coil. What is the point in cultivating it further, if it’s not the Whole Truth?


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The Winding Path – 208

For the context of the following comments and to reply, please click on the DATE/TIME above them.

2015-12-21 11:55

[Responding to Cole Puerto who is avid to introduce people to the prophecy called “The New Message” – by Marshall Vian Summers.

To quote from the official website: “Marshall Vian Summers is God’s Messenger for this time and the times to come, bringing a New Message from God. He is the Messenger for this millennium. Marshall is the most important person on Earth.”

Cole Puerto has been talking with Little Bear.]

To paraphrase, using different terms, and without the benefit of Little Bears direct confirmation:

Maintaining the dualistic view, contradicts awakening in Christ. i.e. Enlightenment. Moksha. The living Truth, that “I and the Father are One”.

God is relevant/relative as long as there is “Other”. But deliberately maintaining the separation, confounds awakening and perpetuates the “Fall from Grace”.

Where does this new message point to, as regards that aspect?

2015-12-22 10:06

Cole Puerto Mod – “I cannot summarize or explain the New Message. What understanding I have of this subject you mention above is conceptual seeing that I have not experienced it.

‘Awakening,’ as I understand it, is not some singular event. It is a process and a journey, and it certainly is not completed in this life. The physical universe is but a small part of God’s Creation. While we are here, we live with two minds – the personal mind or “ego” and Knowledge/Spirit. Uniting with Knowledge is what Christ exemplified in his life, and what all God’s Messengers have demonstrated. This is a piece of my oh so limited understanding.

I’d recommend this teaching, entitled ‘The Separation.’…

Thanks for the clarifying link. It is pointing to the same thing that we’re all talking about. Though, much more reading is required than I’m inclined to do, and I had to start skimming.

This understanding is indeed available within us. To me, the drama of a massive revelation is “something extra”. But it presumably has it’s place. Be nice if no wars ever get started over it.

2015-12-22 11:01

Cole Puerto – “It’s nice to hear you checked it out. It is certainly extensive.

There is the message for the individual as it relates to the uniting with Spirit or Knowledge; and then there is the message for the world. They are one and the same, and reveal what humanity must do to prepare individually, and collectively, for a changing future.

Not everyone can receive it but for those called to do so, there is no other pathway. This is my experience.

For me it is already familiar, and as indicated, the knowledge is “placed” within us already. As I’ve often explained to Christians, the Bible is unnecessary, confusing and inefficient in light of the of the Holy Spirit. Though, the point is seldom well received.

Here’s to hoping that we all outgrow that which isolates us, one from the other.

2015-12-23 09:13

Cole Puerto Mod responding to Kevin Osborne – “A Zen saying I like is: ‘Before Enlightenment chop wood carry water; after Enlightenment, chop wood carry water.’

The building of character is the chopping wood and carrying water.

The beauty of the addage:

Before Enlightenment chop[ing] wood carry[ing] water; after Enlightenment, chop[ing] wood carry[ing] water.

, is for me, in the ordinariness it emphasizes. Seamless and matter of fact.

No “gaining ideas”. Nothing added.


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The Winding Path – 207

For the context of the following comments and to reply, please click on the DATE/TIME above them.

[Responding to Matt Cavanaugh’s response to the the blog post “Do we need Philosophy when we have Science?” by Ben Conroy.]

You think machines can do science without us providing a “meaningful” context for it?

It’s true that “meaningful” is all over the map, that’s the nature of it. It’s called “Life”.

Philosophy really is a waste of time, if it continues to pose questions that Science has already answered.

Within the spectrum of relative existence, no question is ever finally answered. There is only the next, more holistic, context to examine.

The process is philosophy. Whether it serves science or art.

[Commentary from the Blog post: “Yes, Christians and Muslims Worship the Same God (But Here’s What That Means & Doesn’t)“, by Benjamin L. Corey.]

2015-12-18 15:07

It should be obvious to anyone, that there is only one God. Period.

It should also be obvious, that religion is not God.

But alas, it isn’t so, and understanding that there is only God, gets lost in the weeds.

2015-12-18 16:34

Maria Anderson Huston – “Contradictory views cannot both be true. Either Jesus was the son of God or he was not.

In the infinite potential of God, all is true. Who are we to argue with it?

It is the habit of seeing in contradictions that keeps us confused. And our confusion that makes us mean.

Since we choose to think that God has sides to choose from.

2015-12-19 14:29

Maria Anderson Huston – “The God of the Bible is truth, not a lie. Thus, not contradictory.

God is Truth and certainly not contradictory. But you saying the above, is an approximation.

Same for anything I say. But I will still ask, “What does that mean, ‘The God of the Bible’ “?


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The Winding Path – 206

For the context of the following comments and to reply, please click on the DATE/TIME above them.

2015-12-18 13:41

[Responding to Sabio Lantz.]

The illusory nature of the sense of “I” as object? This is nothing new of course.

And reading the Paul Bloom article, along with the comments here, I wonder at the constricted application of “dualism”. So carefully groomed to serve the Godless point of view.

But why?

It is such a small step from that insight, to at least an intuition, of the actual non-dualistic unity of reality. Beyond time. Self included.

Unless there is a policy against it.

2015-12-28 11:28

[Responding to Sabio Lantz.]

Monkey vs. Cat gods? This is a description of relativity. Underlying it, the Singularity expressing as both and neither.

And advaita? Like for Ramana Maharshi, it is a convenient catechism once one starts talking about IT. A finger pointing at the moon.

If you find an answer to the question “Who am I”, by whom exactly was it found?


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The Winding Path – 205

For the context of the following comments and to reply, please click on the DATE/TIME above them.


[Responding to nanyummyify.]

Get rid of the “randomness” idea. Understanding that the perfect, unbounded nature of infinitude, is expressed as creation. Permeating itself throughout itself.

Evolution of life forms, laws of physics, chemistry, sentience all share the common ground of Infinite Singularity.

If you still need to separate evolution and adaptation, consider the relativity of time, and that all creation takes place in this single moment. Eternally.

2015-12-13 09:50 (approximately)

IWannaBTheGuy responding to nanyummyify – “Earth has had billions of years to cook up life.

All of that, in this single dimensionless moment.

Evolution in reality is trial and error, not random chance nor intelligent design or any form of ‘miracle’.

Infinitely distributed parallel processing. The nature of absolute infinitude. What’s not miraculous about it?

Our genome has a lot of junk code. In fact, 8% of the entire human genome came from dormant retroviruses, you can look it up yourself. Where’s the intelligence in that?

Nothing exists in isolation from the context. The context, if honestly examined, is the Entirety.

Being indifferent to the wonder of it, is a choice, but not the only one possible.

2015-12-13 10:18 (approximately)

[Responding to nickj14711.]

Consider that the infinite potentiality of no-thing, inevitably results in some-thing.

The rest, as they say, “is history”.

But, then, if we are honest about it, we must consider the situation where-by, the infinitude of no-thing, having no where to go, somehow remains.


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The Winding Path – 204

For the context of the following comments and to reply, please click on the DATE/TIME above them.

2015-11-07 11:51

[These are extractions from the blog post, “Belief is Ignorance”, by Mr Smith on the “Spiritual But Not Religious” channel on Patheos.]

Mr Smith – “Everyone has beliefs, I challenge people on this forum, to explain what belief is, what you are actually doing by believing in something, do not bother looking in the dictionary you will not find the correct answer or understanding.

Mr Smith responding to Lisa Kopf Fournie – “People believe because they do not know the truth of this life or of themselves

[intermediate commentary not displayed.]

All beliefs are ignorant. 100%

If I get in a car and start to drive, I am acting on the belief that because I have driven before, I can do so again. This works until it doesn’t.

It is not ignorance, it is trust, muscle memory, faith, common sense.

What is not true about this aspect of living?

What is this other truth of life, and ourselves, that you are promoting?

2015-12-08 09:33

Mr Smith responding to entrance – “Why are we, is basically the same as who am I or who are you

[Intermmediate commentary not displayed.]

You must live intensely, leaving the superficial behind, leaving all the knowledge in your mind behind, challenging your emotional psychological and physical limitations, that is the way to realise the answer to this question. And the answer to this question is the only question in life worth knowing.

Even the desire to know the answer intrudes on the process. Like you said, “realization”. Knower, and what is known, not different.

Mr Smith – “You have read my statement, your mind has jumped to some conclusion, to realise the answer we’re talking about, you have to live intensely and leave your mind, beliefs, comfort zone and nonsense behind

2015-12-08 10:01

Lisa Kopf Fournie – “And what we[‘]re actually doing by believing in something. We are creating are own reality and what makes us feel like were a part of something, normal, or maybe off the beaten path. It is what makes us whole. Maybe Belief is Ignorance, but if I believe in something it can create wonderful things. As for instance , I believe I’m a good person, I will then try to continue to live to those standards. Belief is what makes us human.

Mr Smith – “If belief is ignorance like I am saying, and you are creating your reality through belief. Then you’re living in a fairyland, and you are missing out on the real reality in life

Lisa Kopf Fournie – “So, you have no belief , not even in yourself…..

Mr Smith – “That is correct

[responding to Mr Smith]

You believe that people are “missing out on the real reality in life”.

You believe in the the question “Who am I?”, and that “it is the most important question to be discovered in a human being’s life. It will bring peace and fulfilment”.

I’m not saying that I don’t believe this too, but you are riding around on a pretty high horse.

The process of enlightenment is in play, at all levels, even in the depths of hell. This is why we are advised not to judge our neighbor for the mote in his eye.

2015-12-08 16:24

Mr Smith – “For a start I do not believe in anything, if you are a Christian then you judge me as a sinner, I like high horses, there are only two levels ignorance and enlightenment. And reading scriptures will keep you in ignorance.

So far I don’t believe you, but that’s the point right?

2015-12-08 10:15

[Responding to Mr Smith who has been conversing with Brad JJ .]

The concept is not the thing.

But the concept that “the concept is not the thing” is also, not the thing.

Like you said, these words and ideas are “tools”. They are real, but the relativity of it must be understood.

Understanding relativity, we understand the absolute.

2015-12-08 16:26

Mr Smith – “The human mind is only capable of understanding superficial nonsense. The intellect can go round and round in circles, there is a big difference between intellect and intelligence, an intellectual person will be working out all the problems of life. An intelligent person will be at peace and will be fulfilled. Which one are you ?

Who are you asking?

2015-12-09 08:34

Mr Smith – “All the Christians

As concept or reality?

Not that conceptualization actually falls outside of reality.

Who then is it, that is ignorant of True Self?


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The Winding Path – 203

For the context of the following comments and to reply, please click on the DATE/TIME above them.

2015-11-24 14:24

Random non-partisan voter – “I do not believe or disbelieve. I’m not quite sure if I would labelled an atheist or agnostic.

I think that it’s not just the government that is using religion to manipulate you, but also that religion itself is doing that in most cases.

There’s a list of things that will immediately turn me away from a religion or church, in no particular order…
1. Their God demands your worship or you will be punished.
2. Their God is all-knowing and all-powerful (it has disturbing implications).
3. Anyone who does not follow their religion (even someone who has never heard of it) is going to hell.
4. It is filthy rich (Particularly if it doesn’t seem to be doing ‘Gods work’ in the communities it serves).
5. That you can merely ask for forgiveness and it will be immediately granted.
6. Their religion is the only one that is ‘right’.
7. They don’t understand that the bible was written by multiple people and are stories meant to impart wisdom, not believe it word for word.

Lastly, there are problems with some of the bibles. For example, the King James bible, I believe the most popular with Christianity, was re-worked by King James for political reasons. To think it is still in it’s original ‘form’ so-to-speak is folly… but most don’t even know where it came from.

I learned a long time ago not worry so much about the various shoe boxes that people squeeze God into.

Best to scan the horizon out of a personal curiosity. If you lack curiosity, I would recommend getting some, but beyond that, it’s up to you.

2015-11-25 08:57

Random non-partisan voter – “My philosophy is to live my life the best I can and if that’s not good enough in the end, well that’s on me.

Doing our best is good enough, right now. And Now, is all there really is.

At some point, the question of ownership comes into focus. (i.e. Who is it, that is doing their best?)

Simple and timeless principals, no seminaries, priests, and church required.

2015-11-24 14:31

Lee V. – “God is in control. always.

Except that it manifests infinitely as free will. Making this quite a lively situation.


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The Winding Path – 202

For the context of the following comments and to reply, please click on the DATE/TIME above them.

2015-11-21 10:14

Anoop Alex – “I would say Consciousness is the Seamless All. There is a greater Consciousness of which we are a part and this material reality is a part. But within this reality we usually have a more limited level of consciousness. And this reality is not the ONLY reality.

What are all these divisions then? If “Consciousness is the Seamless All”.

Do you mean a greater Consciousness than yours and mine? In which case, a closer look at what is meant by you and me should follow.

Is Consciousness different than reality?

How are other realities, and this reality, actually different? Beyond the contrivances of our perceptual and conceptual fields?

And again, who are we?

2015-11-21 10:14

charlesburchfield – “Trauma skews reality all out of shape. Ppl w p.t.s.d. See reality thru an altered chemestry. Adrealin is a powerful mind altering chemical. When ppl are triggered one is not exp the same reality as they.

Accountants and go-go dancers. Schizophrenics, drug addicts, dreamers, shamans, astronauts of all sorts…

The common ground, is the sense of Self. The imperishable witness.

Understanding, as in realizing, the Self, its nature and source, that is the good and liberating goal. The common ground.

I don’t mean personal identity, but the loom upon which, it is wove.

2015-11-26 08:53

charlesburchfield – “I have been pondering what you said for many days. when I was in early recovery from my addiction to alcohol and drugs I had a flash of being like an ice cube melting in the middle of a warm sea. at that point I was identified with my addiction and since I had to give it up I freeked! would be an existential nobody and nothing?was the donut hole? I think my higher power was showing me that flash bc that was just a temporary state of consciousness. what was shortly to follow, that continues to fill in the loneliness, the emptiness and depression was/is 10 years i’ve survived sobriety and serenity. now I’m posting this to you.

Addiction and recovery is such a hard path, I’ve always known fear and doubt surrounding the possibilities.

Surrendering to grace is so key, Thank you for sharing it.


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The Winding Path – 201

For the context of the following comments and to reply, please click on the DATE/TIME above

2015-11-20 06:33

[Patheos Blog: Spiritual but not Religious – “The Thing about God”, by Anoop Alex]

The way of understanding most satisfactory to my needs, is that “nothing” = infinite potential.

Therefore everything becomes. But most importantly the root cause, infinitude, is what everything is made of.

The interplay of laws, forces, forms, and mind, that we experience as existence, is the immediate effect of primordial infinitude reflecting upon it’s own nature. Becoming aware of its existence. The emergence of experience.

The proof of this, is the dimensionless Now.

2015-11-20 09:59

Absolute time is the singularity. Not even sure it qualifies as “time”. Same for “space”. The distinctions arise with relativity. As do we, the “individual units”.

Attachment to the relative frame work inhibits understanding of the absolute.

To understand the absolute, one dies to the relative. That does not mean the body/mind, just the unconscious identification with it.

Anything else is more of the same. A familiar, and painfully beautiful dance, through kaleidoscope land.

2015-11-20 11:25

Anoop Alex – “There is no ultimate objective reality, only a web of subjective realities.

Objective reality would be the absolute Entirety. The Singularity. The All.

From your comments, I can’t tell if you contemplate the seamlessness of identity implied by that.

Singularity, engulfing concepts, data, senses, perspective, galaxies and universes. No distinctions and therefore nothing. Śūnyatā.

Where does this fit in your scheme of things?

2015-11-20 14:59

Anoop Alex – “I would say Consciousness is the Seamless All. There is a greater Consciousness of which we are a part and this material reality is a part. But within this reality we usually have a more limited level of consciousness. And this reality is not the ONLY reality.

What are all these divisions then? If “Consciousness is the Seamless All”.

Do you mean a greater Consciousness than yours and mine? In which case, a closer look at what is meant by you and me should follow.

Is Consciousness different than reality?

How are other realities, and this reality actually different? Beyond the contrivances of our perceptual and conceptual fields?

And again, who are we?

2015-11-21 08:30

Anoop Alex – “Consciounsess is the Oneness from which everything is derived. We are individuated units of awareness within this. Like fractal consciousnesses. This is just my belief ofcourse. I have no way to prove this. And the realities are not different except through personal perception.

It’s a good enough model to go with. But go where with it?

Some are predisposed to explore the meaning of Oneness. The non-difference behind the multiplicity. This is the path that most emphasizes knowing God, and the Truth of One Self.

The counterpart to that, is to explore outward into the permutations of individual and finite perceptual fields. This isn’t much different than how we lived when were clueless about “Consciousness being One”. Just that maybe, there will be some enhanced skill sets; Some psychic powers; Sidhhis.

A question I haven’t heard being asked though, is how do these two paths differ karmically? The inertia of experience either resolves or compounds.

Emphasizing One Self, or emphasizing the fractalized version; Which serves harmlessness and love better?

Does it matter? What do we hope the other guy is doing? etc.

2015-11-20- 14:41

ManFromAnotherPlace responding to stormee – “Take that further..God IS the universe?

Rather, the pure pristine infinitude of potential. Relative to which, the universe is a mere sideshow. Though we think it a big deal.


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