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[theot58 responding to Nofun]
“You want ‘proof’ – there is no ‘proof’
Do want convincing evidence:
– Watch a baby being born
– Open you eyes and see the beauty of creation
– on a cloudless night look up a the stars in the sky
A building is proof of a builder
A painting is proof of a painter
A creation is proof of a creator“
[Nofun responding to theot58]
“None of that is evidence of god himself. You are having a personal relationship with god not his creation“
[brmckay responding to Nofun]
“Putting God outside of creation is a primitive trope.
Stop doing that and pieces start falling into place.“
Nofun – “Well if god is inside creation he needs a creator.“
There is no inside or outside, if you get right down to it.
You are thinking of “God willing” creation into existence. That would indeed require an preliminary act of creation. (puts the cart before the horse)
I am more inclined to think of “creation” as the emergent characteristic of Gods nature.
That nature being “infinitude” and therefore pure and unbounded potential.
If you can use the word “reality” with this context in mind, then we don’t actually have much of an argument.
Sticking point might be, that I consider “infinitude” as the essential foundation of sentience.
Nofun – “If he stands outside of creation you could say the universe is his toy he created but if he is inside a creation he is part of that creation and thus created.”
Talking about god’s nature circumvents this but what does that even mean? Would god and the universe be the same then?
Your problem is you posit the idea of a god then go looking for him. There is no reason to posit a god as there is no evidence of such a being.
As much fun as it is to run off into a infinity the ‘reality’ is we are finite beings with finite life spans that need to think and do stuff here and now. This [is] where sentience lies.“
The reasonable conclusion is that God is nature, both potential and manifest.
There is no inside or outside to this. The Entirety being THE ONLY real infinity.
So, what does this mean as regards the nose-to-the-grindstone “sentience” that you reference in your last paragraph?
Being a subset of that real infinity; Where exactly does sentience lie?