For the context of the following comments and to reply, please click on the DATE/TIME above them.
Popvaditecclesiae responding to MS Leavelle – “Yes. So many think its about self. Its really that, a true man protects those around him. The world would be a much safer place. If more men did their God given duty to protect the helpless and the weak. Yes, even with the point of a gun.“
Real men and women do their best to understand what it is about themselves that obstructs Peace.
We create the world that we live in. Moment by moment. Every action and thought puts shape to it.
Armed stalemate or a quicker draw is not Peace. You can call this Christianity till you are blue in the face. Won’t make it True.
Investigator – “//Real men and women do their best to understand what it is about themselves that obstructs Peace.//
Sometimes your best isn’t enough. There are a whole lot of robberies, rapes, and murders. Are you blaming these victims for not doing their best to understand the obstruction of peace in their lives?“
You said “sometimes your best isn’t enough“. So I will assume that the best was offered. On the part of the perpetrator as well.
So, what next?
Is it really by “our” efforts that we open the way to Peace, or by our intentions and attentions?
And the quality of that, being the fruit of grace.
Investigator – “//So I will assume that the best was offered.//
And obviously, it wasn’t enough. That is the problem with the pie in the sky liberal attitude, you don’t live in the world of the real. You don’t understand, or at least your proposed solutions fail to acknowledge that there are those in the world bent on doing evil and their evil actions often follow the path of least resistance, ie., after willing, or the most opportune, victims.
I’m all for being peaceable, for loving my enemies, for sharing the love Christ offers a lost and dying world, for feeding the hungry, clothing the naked, and visiting widows and orphans in distress, but this business of laying down and being a victim, that ain’t happening.“
The guns, landmines, and nuclear arsenal thing is real to me. I have to exist along side of that, including the people who have played active roles ramping the whole thing up.
That is a reality. And yes, rapists, murderers and politicians as well.
However, it is my responsibility not to dig the hole deeper, to whatever degree is given.
Not asking you to lay down and be a victim. If you think guns help you to manage that, then so be it.
The people here are right though to remind you, that in itself, it does not point the way to Christ, except as antithesis.
reasonnotfeelings – “If the country followed you, then innocent people would be at the mercy of maniacs….just like they are in Syria and Iraq…just like they are
in the inner city where leftists make all of the rules.“
Put the manufacturers of weaponry out of business, then we can talk about this “…where leftists make all the rules” nonsense.
Recognizing what is evil, starts at home. That applies to Syrians and Chicago gang bangers as well as you or me.
Investigator – “//Put the manufacturers of weaponry out of business, then we can talk about this ‘…where leftists make all the rules’ nonsense.//
Oh yeah, there was never any violence until guns were invented. It is a totally new phenomenon.
//That applies to Syrians and Chicago gang bangers as well as you or me.//
Please be the first to walk into the gang neighborhoods and peaceably suggest they disarm. Should you somehow survive, you’ll be whistling a different tune.
Let’s all just visualize peace, or channel it depending on one’s false notion of what will work is.
Recognizing your need to vent, I’d still be curious what your more reasoned thoughts might be on these points.
Popvaditecclesiae – “So dont protect the innocent? Or do?“
Don’t make a fetish about it years in advance.
Don’t visualize violent events into actuality.
Do contemplate the falsity of that fearful thing called death.
Do contemplate seamless kinship with eternal God.
Responding to Popvaditecclesiae.
I’m going to try and get closer to the center of this argument.
Guns exist, people who believe in them exist. Also, people who see beyond that paradigm exist as well.
We share the same world.
As Martin Luther King and Malcolm X fought the same war. Both contributed something that was needed.
Gandhian inspired non-violence and the righteous declaration “By any means necessary”.
In the end I’m pretty sure that we are better off for the strong showing by King and non-violence on that march from Selma to Montgomery.
The price that they were willing to pay was the sacrifice that was needed.