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“Supernatural” is another term that needs defining.
” of a manifestation or event, attributed to some force beyond scientific understanding or the laws of nature.”
Does this mean something that is beyond current scientific understanding, or does it mean something that can never be understood scientifically? i.e. not of nature?
What does this mean, “not of nature”? It’s not possible. If something exists, causes to exist, or potentially exists, it is of nature. If it arises in our imagination, it is of nature.
Basically the term “supernatural” is a fuzzy term and most people seem satisfied with the ambiguity. When they aren’t, there is always the certainty of science. Something that is also of nature.
The foundation of nature though, being infinitude, means that the certainty of science isn’t all that certain.
It’s all quite ambiguous really.
carolyntclark responding to ObscurelyAgnostic – “and as we know, the need to make a living is a huge factor in many,many of the unbelieving clergy crossing their fingers in the pulpit. Keeping food on the table and caring for family is no small necessity.”
Cultivating “right Livelihood” is also “no small necessity”, but the options in our current culture can be slim.
What color hat do you want white, black, blue, yellow or red?
The inertial forces of 40 hour weeks and 30 year mortgages breed habits of compromise.
But shamans and priests, now selling used cars?!
carolyntclark responding to Linda_LaScola – “here, here, Linda !!The entanglements of religion are vast and we need all possible approaches .”
Here is a take on entanglements.
No sign of religion anywhere.
Kevin Osborne – “Perhaps one God of creation and the rest of us cooperative gods with our understanding determining our perspective.”
Sometimes the obvious is the hardest sell of all.
Such an odd business?
Neither fear of, nor disdain for, long voyages gets the job done. And, falling over the edge remains a possibility.
Nimblewill responding to ObscurelyAgnostic – “My two cents worth………Not that you asked for it. All other teachers taught a dualism which Jesus does away with.”
Hmmm…my experience of the Monist teachings found ….. well just about everywhere; Helped me see past the dualistic legacy of the Abrahamic tradition and understand that Jesus was teaching it too.
Point being that getting un-confused about our essential non-difference from the All, is the Way. (Tao, Zen mind, Buddha nature, Brahman, Christ, Singularity … )
The return home at the end of a busy day.
(Responding to louismoreaugottschalk who had been involved in a patently transparent back-and-forth.)
He’s just reacting to the reflexive, proprietary, put-their-paradigm-in-it’s place rhetoric. Many of us have had to absorb this from “Christians”.
Some are still picking at the scabs while the banter descends to mere comparison of “Tats”.
Denis E. – “Mr. Corey hopes to save the Christian church in America. A stellar goal but, in my mind, not worth the effort.”
Jesus is his Guru. The church, his Sangha.
The effort is worth it, because those Christians are closer to the kind we can commune with.
We are all in a position now to teach to a more coherent Truth.
If instead, we perpetuate the someone-wins-and-some-one-looses game. The moment gets lost again and again.
louismoreaugottschalk – “geezuz brian [sic], bingo! i’ve been going over this same territory w my metal detector for eons but you went right to the place! feels so good when sombody finally articulates what i’ve been trying for! I notice the athiests must have their class of gatekeepers.
Yonatan – “This is where we disagree. One follows each breath. That is all. No guru and no sangha. Everything else is a quagmire of uncertainty that drags us into its flailing arms as if to save a drowning child. We are dragged through the muck again and again and like a seesaw there are victories and defeats but the former are Pyrrhic at best.”
What warrants ignoring Guru and Sangha? Especially if it’s all still a quagmire.
From where did YOU learn about the breath?
Those that have gone before can not help but to help. And the successful sincerity of those who walk along with us, can only clear our own eyes.
There is a process, (much friendlier than we think) and nothing that is not tailored to our needs.
Victories and defeats are the ebb and flow of the journey. Born in perfection. Where’s the problem? Where’s our heart?
Pyrrhic? Seems more like a habit of expectations.
Yonatan – “Instinct. One slap and I was breathing. Or rather one slap and I found myself breathing — the start of this existence.There being no guru and no sangha is about non attachment to externals such as a teacher or a congregation. Where do you find the teacher and where do you find the student?This successful, so called, sincerity is a generalization. Perchance one finds friendship where each helps to awaken the other. There is no buddha no dharma, no sangha, only this.But the journey is not about saving this sangha or this church. If so one is bound by the habit of expectations.”
Still reeks of the party line, but I do like your drift.
Yonatan – “And no party line. . .:)”
[Question for the reader: Are we just comparing “Tats”?]