For the context of the following comments and to reply, please click on the DATE/TIME above them.
(Rational Doubt – “Jesus: Human or Supernatural? The Liberal/Conservative Divide”; Linda LaScola)
Linda, I’ll echo the enthusiasm that others have expressed at hearing your own voice in this issue.
Having postponed my interest in Jesus until I’d absorb much of Indian, Chinese, Japanese, Tibetan, Yaqui, Sioux, Hopi, Navaho, Quaker, Transcendentalist and Hippie articulations; I was not so blinded by the legacy of Jewish self aggrandizement or ponderous Roman hegemony.
I found it easy to see the life of the Carpenter in terms of great Yogi, Hero, Spiritual genius, saint and Avatar. The cackle and clatter of chattering generations was only to be expected.
Alas for many, the baby is out with the bath, and noses missing from their owner’s face.
Special evidence of rigid backlash amongst conservative ex-believers seems like the flip side of a basic personality type. Adamant and righteous in belief, adamant and righteous in non-belief.
Liberals are a softer breed. More content with fuzzy edges.
mason – “It seems evident to me that the mythical Jesus really loved to be, and was quite happy to be worshiped, as all Gods are.”
You don’t seem to have considered the role of detachment from the personal. (vairagya, moksha, Buddha mind, enlightenment)
Projecting yourself into his shoes would of course be cause for scepticism.
But why invest so heavily in an obvious caricature?
There is a problem in assuming (or insisting) that nothing qualifies as God realization. This is one of them.
mason – “I’ve studied Buddhism (since 1983), and the idea of detachment. I think it’s as valid as catching one’s shadow. I’ve observed people get very depressed and psychotic seeking detachment, believing all their problems come from wanting. Personally 95% of all I’ve wanted or desired turned out to be great and quite satisfying. I’ve found benefit in Mahayana Buddism, the Greater Vessel and Zen enlightenment, not in what I think is a toxic mental game, so called detachment.
Why invest in a caricature? Caricatures, metaphors, similes, symbols are very powerful instruments of human communication. Just curious, what do you invest in brmckay?
I have no personal problem assuming or insisting that nothing qualifies as God (any deity) realization; I’m an atheist. The only valid definition of God IMEO is the non-deity Spinoza Pantheist definition that God and the Universe are identical. There is no personal supernatural God, no deity. Realization is in the conscious experience of science, music, art, travel, interpersonal relationships, and all the other avenues of real life one can choose to travel.
Detachment? No thanks. We’ll get more than we need of that when the monitor flat lines. :)”
mason – “I’ve observed people get very depressed and psychotic seeking detachment,…”
That would indicate an attachment to detachment.
Probably not what I meant (but you knew that). A little parallax maybe, but other than that, should not skew future readings. (please)
“I have no personal problem assuming or insisting that nothing qualifies as God (any deity) realization; I’m an atheist.”
Was not referring to a deity (Why do people think that?)
“Why invest in a caricature? Caricatures, metaphors, similes, symbols are very powerful instruments of human communication. Just curious, what do you invest in brmckay?”
Actually that was a brilliant turn. Very clear in the context of your assumptions per the Carpenter’s motives. (Remember the definition of Bodhisattva?)
Just because you have problems with the screwed up cultural overlays would not be justification for dissing the Guru. How many people actually get the Buddha as Siddhārtha Gautama got the Buddha?
As for what I “invest in”… Same as you.
This is all practice. (wouldn’t you agree?)
Kevin Osborne responding to mason – “I agree that God and the universe are identical. On earth and through human eyes we have a selective view of this place, however. Peel the onion to see the layers.”