For the context of the following comments please click on the hyperlinks above them.
(Some of following are just extracts from a conversation that ended in a frustrating and overly personal manner. Since there was considerable time invested, I’ve included some segments that I found helpful.)
Humans have a center of “idealization” as the core of their personal awareness. This takes many forms. Some crippling, some exalting. The point is not the what, but the why of it.
Our idealization is malleable. Subject to evolution. What forces do you want to shape it? I prefer letting nature do it. This is what I call “Trusting God”.
You yourself are not free of “idealization”; Science sets the limits on meaning? This is your choice. I don’t quibble with that, but I certainly can’t put faith in it as a panacea. Much less in the seriously conflicted hands of my fellow humans.
The “fixation on failure” thing refers to the evidence in your writing, that you only see failure in people of faith, then assume it’s because of religion. Perhaps a lot of it is. But there is a ton of personal projection going on as well.
I see the same measure of failure in politics, class-ism, racism, militarism, materialism, consumerism.
Environmental abuse and indifference! Lets get real. It’s people we are talking about.
The trouble that we see in the world, is the amplification of tribalism. Exacerbated by overpopulation.
As for religion and grass roots theology; not everybody is ready to think deeply about the great mystery. Perhaps not even you.
But! That doesn’t excuse a global condemnation of those who attribute meaning in life to God. That phenomena, the nature of which, science is probably not sufficient to address.
90Lew90 – “We’re not in your god’s hands, our success or failure is entirely in our own hands. Your god should by now be a thing of the past and I would say you have a responsibility to put it in the past and grow up. What you’ve been told about your “soul” is myth. “
Who are you talking to here?
So far I have done my best to avoid certainties beyond the certainty that the Entirety from which we (only seem to) emerge, should be the starting point for contemplation of God.
An honest and accurate starting point for the discussions to follow.
You are anti-religious. This is a different subject. And we have covered it prematurely. In my opinion.
Rick Faircloth – “I’ve decided to try to do things the way everyone seems to like on here! Just throw out what you don’t like and make it up as you go!”
What you see here is “Christ” at work in the heart.
When that happens all, the legislated and manipulated adages of the past come into perspective. The scaffolding comes down.
This inauthentic jestering on your part just seems desperate. Not helpful.
Why not try to learn? Trusting the integrity that comes from God.
Rick Faircloth – “Sigh, I’m so confused!”
A trail of lies makes it hard to find your way home. What are you doing?
Just say the word, and someone can throw a bucket of cold water on your head.
Stryker (aka Rick Faircloth) – “And how do you get your information from God, brmckay?”
Forty years of practice, curiosity and earnest enquiry.
What about you?
(Response to John Shores article titled ‘What Christianity without hell looks like.‘)
So, reading a fair portion, but by no means all, of these comments; I’m wondering if I do or don’t believe in hell.
To me it is clear (and I’ve said it before) that hell is a work in progress.
The effect of living out life in the trance of relativity. Ignorant of the Truth of absolute non-difference.
Our actions create our experience. Look around and you can see what that is like.
If the world we are born from, becomes too toxic. If the company of our fellows too chaotic and unpredictable. Too bestial. Existence becomes unbearable. But we are born or reborn again and again.
Why? Because eternity is the Truth of it. But that Truth, of our One Self, becomes harder to know. And yet more necessary that we do.
So yes, hell is likely but it is not punishment. It is a potential effect. Here and Now.
Comes from laying up our treasures where the moths and rust can have at it.
( Responding to the video: ‘BBC The Atheism Tapes – Daniel Dennett – 3 of 6‘ )
brmckay – “Darwin’s theories opened the door to a better understanding of God. But these fellows minds, are as conditioned by primitive imaginings, as the ancestors they think they’ve displaced.”
Dan Lennon – “This is ironic at best and disingenuous at worst. Religion has fought science at every turn as science has displaced superstition with natural explanations. That is why Darwin, who was a believer, lost his faith. You can say that science merely reveals in greater detail the way in which God works if you like, but that is merely a preference on your part, since the facts themselves neither require nor imply a creator. On the contrary, the more we know about how the universe works the less it seems to be under any purposeful direction, and certainly not with human interests in mind.”
Yes, the irony of the situation is not lost on me. But I stand by my comment. There is nothing ingenuous here.
The faith that Darwin lost, was in his mental constructs regarding an anthropomophized creator. I assume these arose from the Christian conditioning of his times.
Mental constructs are not God. We exist therefore we are created. The purposefulness of “our” relative experience does not adequately summarize that of the singularity of God.
And following from this, the constructs of “I’, “We”, “Our”, “Mine” are not what they seem.
Without some effort to comprehend a non-dualistic sense of Entirety, you are NOT talking about God.
Is this more clear?