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My inside voice responding to Anton –
Actually you said: “if we’re just evolved primates… In that case, what’s the point of creating a more just society? Why should we care about human endeavor at all?”
There are plenty of reasons to care about justice and the achievements of humanity without believing in the supernatural. That you can’t think of any seems a tragic failure of imagination.
Actually, here is the quote from start to finish:
Anton – We’re just evolved primates, they say, our joys and passions are just neurochemistry, and anyone who asserts that humans are more than just that may as well be singing about fairies and angels. In that case, what’s the point of creating a more just society? Why should we care about human endeavor at all?
How many times must we hear that belief in God is equivalent to belief in unicorns? I don’t care if there are people for whom that might be true; there is no fidelity to truth in it’s recitation.
The atheist jihad seems to be about attacking the bottom rung of a ladder that represents the entire arc of human expression.
I would suggest first seeing where we have been; Then extend our experience, with your own.
The enquiry needs empiricism without the nihilism; The mastery of which, will reveal that using the term “supernatural”, to explain anything, is for kindergartners. Someone of your capacity should be well beyond that, but you squander your time, bullying your inner child.
My inside voice – My point was only that what we are: stardust, forged in the cosmic furnaces, arranged into the awesome complexity of living systems over billions of years, is enough.
I actually don’t argue with this. And don’t see a contradiction.
Why do we need to be more than that to be worth something to you?
I wish I hadn’t come off as attacking you personally. My guess is that we are both starting to generalize and are talking to an aggregate of previous conversations.
I learned a new term yesterday at a symposium on consciousness. “The Hard Problem“.
I also learned that the Buddha did not address the Singularity, just that there is no self.
I only differ in how I would say this. Preferring to emphasize the illusory nature of the personal sense of self. And tracing reality to it’s prototype.
The Buddha not referencing the Singularity, is understandable; By it’s nature, it can not be described. And doing so, may excite an attachment to “God”, which would delay liberation from the wheel of death and rebirth.
I am “attached” to the quest for “God” awareness. At some point, when this attachment has served it’s purpose, I will leave it behind. But for now, it is my “Path”, and fills the days with purpose.
My inside voice – Well, I’m still asking, and I still haven’t heard. If you believe in something that makes us more than primates, and it’s not supernatural, then what is it? You can assume “supernatural” is an insult if you like, but I meant it to be descriptive not pejorative; that what you are talking about is not measurable in any way in this universe. Are you saying that what you believe (a “seamless connection to god”?) is measurable in some way in this universe?
Supernatural indicates to me: Something outside of nature. I’m saying that the Entirety is nature; Including its origin in the infinitum of singularity. I say “seamless” because, when is is taken as a whole. That is what it means.
From my understanding, the way to measure this is to step out of the finite and know it as it is.
Kevin Osborne, (the one someone labeled a relativist), has offered suggestions that might help: – Just hear me say it, while holding your own view. – Thus approaching the “freedom” to be found, in seeing everything as true.