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Bob finally gets my goat. – brmckay
You are not being honest.
Every comment that I have made here, is specifically addressed to a very easy to understand point.
All of these gods that you obsess over, Christian included, are only conceptualizations.
Fingers pointing at the Moon.
No one has the copyright.
If you can’t give me that point. There is nothing left to learn from this conversation.
I have a hard time believing that you can’t interpret symbolic language to the degree that you have demonstrated. Either mine, or the multitude of cosmologies, metaphors, myths, poems, songs and sacred scripture that the human spirit has produced.
You are as guilty as any Bible thumping, flat landian, world is four thousand years old creationist. You are taking it all literally.
My effort is to remind people that engaging with the Entirety through our entire being. Body, mind, heart, soul. Is what evolution creates us for.
There are no rules about this. It is it’s own nature expressing.
Empiricism worship, at the expense of the big picture, is just as obstructive as IFB, King James only, hell and brimstone, Jesus or the highway, Bibleism.
And, I can’t make my point playing by your rules. They are not appropriate to the question.
I apply a technical language to the inquiry that seems appropriate to the question from my vantage point. But you assume that I am hiding something? Or, uncomfortable with the truth? What truth would that be?
You rule out the functionality of koans and all technology tailored to the question of God realization. Which as I have tried to explain, is ultimately better termed, Self realization. What is your motive for this?
Your dismissal of the musical instrument analogy shows that you do not understand the ordinariness of the process involved. Knowing God, is a skill that can be cultivated. Practice is the path, but first a 180 degree turn about; The initial intuition. Then the work.
You assume too much about who I have met and who has taught me. What is the basis of your assumption?
Since I do not want to foster even more division, and your agenda seems to be to deify empiricism, this will have to wait.
Perhaps you will meet someone better able to teach. Even show you directly. In a way that leaves no questions.
If you really want Truth. And not just facts.
Bob Seidensticker – Yes, if you presuppose God exists, then God exists. Doesn’t help advance the conversation (or address the Problem), however.
In what way have I not tried to advance the conversation?
The hiddenness is explainable and also provides the solution. (see previous koan like exercises)
Not sure what you want.
I’m just aiming for accuracy. Not my fault if the style makes it hard to pigeonhole and I avoid the usual strawgods for you to knock down.
Bob Seidensticker – Do you always write like this? If you could write in clear English, that would help us understand what you’re saying.
The Problem of Divine Hiddenness is: If our understanding and believing in God is essential for us to get into heaven, and God wants that more than we do ourselves, why is he so hidden? Why not be obvious? Why is faith necessary, since that screams out that the whole thing is a fraud.
Yes, I pretty much write like this. I try to get better at it all the time.
I can’t agree with the term “fraud” as a blanket term. Just people codifying a compromised and incomplete understanding.
Sophomoric or theologically challenged works better for me.
Yes, of course there are frauds, but that does not relegate all religious and spiritually oriented people to the role of misguided fools.
There are, and have been, many geniuses. There are also many earnest students of the process that they inspire.
Faith is a stage. For instance, when I wanted to learn to play a musical instrument, I initially only had faith that it was possible.
As for “God” being hidden. It’s just that there is nothing that is not God to compare to.