For the context of the following comments please click on the hyperlink above it. You could also consider addressing any comments in situ, rather than here. – Thanks.
June 18, 2013 at 6:25 am
Interesting question…interesting answer.
“Lee – I believe our ability to reason and deduce values from or within the strict context of universal natural law is quite possibly our greatest quality.”
Very kinetic and dynamic. Much like the manifest, ever changing universe.
Anthropocentric in nature. The nature of “our race”.
But what about “Self Awareness”; The sense of “I”? That which reasons and also dreams, intuits, loves and hates? What laws govern this? Or, is it’s nature the source of the laws?
Is it like light? Manifesting from a candle flame and a star alike. The same and different. Ruled by its laws but eternal and born from the infinite.
June 18, 2013 at 6:45 am
The above reply was meant for this spot. I’ll see if there is anything else to say.
“Lee – I guess my short answer, is that if our race can reach the ultimate in self-awareness which I believe to simply be omniscience of the natural laws of the universe, then there would be no need for positive law.”
That might almost be the goal of Yoga. Though I’m thinking, “omniscience” as you conceive it, is like the “candle” becoming the “sun”. There still remains a final step.
June 18, 2013 at 7:04 am
But then I’m “differently theistic”.
Nothing can be ‘supernatural’. The fixation on this, either by “theists” or “atheists”, is Flatlandian in origin.
An honest definition of God, excludes the possibility of “Super” anything.
“Lee – I do tend toward the agnostic side only in that I believe there are natural laws of the universe yet to be discovered and that any of these undiscovered laws “could” suppose what we’ve termed the supernatural, albeit highly unlikely.”
I appreciate this “sliver of doubt”. Though it is not a discovery of supernatural qualities to the universe (this is impossible), but rather sentience, that should tip the balance.
What are your speculations on the relationship of Self Awareness within the scope of universal law?
“lemans71 – Appeals to personal experience or “feelings” in your heart do not count as evidence.”
I know you are long gone and actually think you have made your case. but…
The anti-theistic insistence on “proof” of God’s existence always boils down to really meaning proof that a machine can verify. Sorry but you have miles to go.
Being stuck in attack mode, against all creeds but your own; Surely equates to insistence on the King James Bible.
Step outside the box, and open your eyes.
June 15, 2013 at 9:20 am
We’re all navigating through this life in a hall of mirrors.
Thanks for helping to sort it out.
Much better than running through it with a hammer in hand.
Thats bound to make it worse.
““lemans71 – Appeals to personal experience or “feelings” in your heart do not count as evidence.””
I am not speaking here for anyone but myself.
I am not a Christian, but treasure this community because of it’s authentic sense of inquiry.
The above quote indicates the problem. It represents the argument most often used by scientists.
Here’s the thing. The only reasonable definitions of God must make reference to the Entirety, The All, The Infinite and all encompassing.
Beyond the mere definition, the Reality of this engulfs the hearts Knowledge, as well as the Scientific method of proof. No distinction between.
My favorite conceptualization is, “The Emergent Property of Infinite Potentiality”. Meditations upon which, provides the understanding, that the whole issue of God’s Existence is irrelevant. Any Existence that requires Non-Existence to provide it’s meaning, is engulfed by the Entirety.
God neither Exists or does not Exist. This in no way changes God.
The proof of this is beyond the reach of Science. Even the Heart or Intuition can only take us towards an understanding of it.
Only the Suchness of its own nature, the Singularity of it, removes the doubt of reason or the reliance on belief.
If you do not seek Enlightenment, you remain as you are. Asking for proof, or clinging to recycled ideas.